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If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

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Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#81

Post by dllthomas »

jmillikin wrote: post #58
dllthomas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"stored the public and private keys in the same directory" People keep harping on that, but as phrased that's not a problem. Wherever you have your private key, there's no reason not to also have your public key. The issue is if the private key was living somewhere inappropriate. Consider that "public and private keys in the same directory" is exactly what happens when you run ssh-keygen on any of the typical setups;…

The entire purpose of having separate public and private keys is for the private key to be stored in a secure location. That way, when your data-writer is compromised, none of the previously written data is at risk without an additional compromise of the key bastion. If the private key is stored in the same directory, then there no effectively no additional security over simple symmetric-key encryption with a passphr…

A private key must be stored in a secure location. Every participant in this conversation agrees on that (I would guess). The presence of the public key in that location doesn't do anything to harm security - if it did, the attacker could just bring a copy.

Putting your private key where your public key belongs is bad. Leaving a copy of your public key with your private key where your private key belongs is meaningless.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#82

Post by jmillikin »

dllthomas wrote: post #81
jmillikin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of having separate public and private keys is for the private key to be stored in a secure location. That way, when your data-writer is compromised, none of the previously written data is at risk without an additional compromise of the key bastion. If the private key is stored in the same directory, then there no effectively no additional security over simple symmetric-key encryption with a passphr…

A private key must be stored in a secure location. Every participant in this conversation agrees on that (I would guess). The presence of the public key in that location doesn't do anything to harm security - if it did, the attacker could just bring a copy. Putting your private key where your public key belongs is bad. Leaving a copy of your public key with your private key where your private key belongs is meaningle…

"You are arguing that storing the public and private key in a vault under the ocean is not less secure than just storing the private key there. While that is technically true, it's also missing the point."

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#83

Post by [deleted] »

jmillikin wrote: post #80
jdbernard wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed dllthomas's point. The private key should never exist outside a dedicated secure location, the "key bastion" as you say. dllthoms's point was that it doesn't matter if the public key is also present in the secure location. There is no reason the keys have to be stored separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement that the private key is private aka. secret. In fact, the public key is public mean…

> There is no reason the keys have to be stored > separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement > that the private key is private aka. secret. It's effectively required to store the keys separately because if you stored the public key on the key bastion, it would be useless. > In fact, the public key is public meaning it is assumed > that anyone has or could gain access to it. It is > purposefully publishe…

[deleted]

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#84

Post by bradleyland »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #41
mbesto wrote: post #37

Please provide a little more evidence than starting a flame war. Although it could in theory be true, it's a fairly baseless claim until you present a little more evidence. For my online transactions I use prepaid cards that are easy to dispose of, and this card was used solely for linode. Couldn't the online card issuer be to blame? How do we know you haven't mistakenly used it for anything else? The fact that you u…

Why is using prepaid cards for online purchases fishy? - Prepaid cards impose an upper limit on what can be spent, so that if the card details leak out you are protected against losing more money than is on the card. They can't plunder your entire bank account. - Some people don't like the idea of having debt. By using a credit card you immediately have a debt whether you like it or not.

The debt argument is perfectly valid, but in the US, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your credit cards. The maximum liability is something very small, like $50, but I've never had a bank hold me liable for a single penny in fraudulent charges. This is because the banks simply charge the fraudulent transactions back to the merchant. The banks are not on the hook for the money, so why would they care?

If you cancelled your credit card after the Linode breech, you potentially saved yourself some hassle, and you saved some merchant somewhere the trouble of a chargeback and lost merchandise, but that merchant wasn't properly verifying cards anyway, so it's still on them. You didn't save yourself a penny.

All of this assumes that all the cards were actually compromised. One report of suspicious activity -- no matter how tightly constrained this person was with their usage -- does not prove that CCs in the Linode database were compromised.

Personally, I don't really care. One of the great things about credit cards is that you're protected from fraud (no really, that's one of the big sales pitches they make). Linode says the cards were encrypted and the private key had a strong password. I have no impetus to inconvenience myself until there is some material reason.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#85

Post by icebraining »

jmillikin wrote: post #80
jdbernard wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed dllthomas's point. The private key should never exist outside a dedicated secure location, the "key bastion" as you say. dllthoms's point was that it doesn't matter if the public key is also present in the secure location. There is no reason the keys have to be stored separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement that the private key is private aka. secret. In fact, the public key is public mean…

> There is no reason the keys have to be stored > separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement > that the private key is private aka. secret. It's effectively required to store the keys separately because if you stored the public key on the key bastion, it would be useless. > In fact, the public key is public meaning it is assumed > that anyone has or could gain access to it. It is > purposefully publishe…

A public key is a file. It can be stored in more than one place. For example, you can generate both inside the key bastion, and then copy the public key to the public servers, while leaving a copy on the bastion.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#86

Post by mikeash »

doktrin wrote: post #70
jalons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your balance is irrelevant - your available credit line is debt, as at any moment you can be liable for up to that amount.

Your available credit line is not debt, and I can't recall ever hearing of anyone being held accountable for fraudulent purchases made against their account. Does this happen?

In the US, you have zero liability for fraudulent charges made on your card without a valid signature, by law.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#87

Post by icebraining »

jmillikin wrote: post #78
tailrecursion wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

twbrownaw is exactly right. If the private key is already in a secure location then there is no need to move it to a secure location. So, any report that the public keys were stored with the private keys means nothing by itself.

You are arguing that storing the public and private key in a vault under the ocean is not less secure than just storing the private key there. While that is technically true, it's also missing the point.

How is it missing the point? It tells us that having "both keys in one directory" is, by itself, no evidence of insecurity by Linode.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#88

Post by raylu »

jmillikin wrote: post #80
jdbernard wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed dllthomas's point. The private key should never exist outside a dedicated secure location, the "key bastion" as you say. dllthoms's point was that it doesn't matter if the public key is also present in the secure location. There is no reason the keys have to be stored separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement that the private key is private aka. secret. In fact, the public key is public mean…

> There is no reason the keys have to be stored > separately. That is orthogonal to the actual requirement > that the private key is private aka. secret. It's effectively required to store the keys separately because if you stored the public key on the key bastion, it would be useless. > In fact, the public key is public meaning it is assumed > that anyone has or could gain access to it. It is > purposefully publishe…

How does storing the public key on the key bastion make it useless?

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#89

Post by dllthomas »

jmillikin wrote: post #82
dllthomas wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A private key must be stored in a secure location. Every participant in this conversation agrees on that (I would guess). The presence of the public key in that location doesn't do anything to harm security - if it did, the attacker could just bring a copy. Putting your private key where your public key belongs is bad. Leaving a copy of your public key with your private key where your private key belongs is meaningle…

"You are arguing that storing the public and private key in a vault under the ocean is not less secure than just storing the private key there. While that is technically true, it's also missing the point."

Consider someone learning their way around this stuff, but not yet well versed. They've heard people on HN talking about how "storing public key and private key together" is bad. Would you recommend they 1) move .ssh/id_dsa.pub to a different directory, or 2) make sure .ssh isn't world-readable? The issue was insecure storage of the private key - presence or absence of the public key is entirely irrelevant.

Re: If you didn't cancel the credit card you used for linode.com, now is the time

#90

Post by waterlesscloud »

rosser wrote: post #74
mikeash wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have a $10,000 credit limit and $0 balance, my debt is $10,000? At any moment I can be liable for up to $10,000? How does that work?

How does that work? It doesn't. The GP comment is FUD.

It is, however, an element of your credit score.
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