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Are coders worth it?

aeonmagazine.com

11–20 of 324 posts

Re: Are coders worth it?

#11
The irony of James' point – that engineers are in such high demand because of how cheap it is to start a startup – is that engineering salaries are actually being prevented from going up as a result.

There's too little supply of qualified engineers, but startups can't afford to compete in salary with the big guys (basically Facebook, Google, Amazon and the financial sector). So we compete on cheaper things like nice offices, gym memberships, etc. Basically, feel good stuff that doesn't cost much.

Facebook's budget for engineers is a good 20-50% higher than the salary a startup can pay.

Thus, it's not actually crazy that a law school student can become an engineer worth $80,000/year in only eight months. It's the startup's only option.

And that's a good thing: Companies like ours (http://www.thinkful.com/) are finding a way to build products in a way that doesn't break our budget. We're also providing great opportunities to people who want to become engineers. The only caveat is for companies greater than 50 or so people – they're struggling most of all: Too small to attract great talent that wants stability, too large to attract hungry new talent or accept junior talent that needs to learn on the job.

There's an upper limit, but our research indicates that there's a durable demand for engineering. This demand will look decidedly less sexy once startups become less cool, but software engineering will be an in-demand skill well beyond the current hype cycle.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#12
I think the point about code being cool is rather shortsighted: Code has only been cool to anything like mainstream youth for maybe five or ten years. In US high school as an exchange student in 1999, the computer science class/team/whatever most certainly wasn't "cool" - and this was on the tail of the .com boom. In high school in Denmark 99-02, I saw the first general recognition that while "being able to make websites" was probably a useful skill, it certainly wasn't cool. Of course, the view changed at university, but then we're pretty far down the selection-bias rabbit-hole.

Given those 15 years of experience, I am not very surprised that I am in short supply. But now that coding is beginning to be cool, I'd also not be surprised if not too many years from now, basic computer literacy at the end of secondary education (or even earlier) includes the ability to crank out basic RoR-style apps.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#13
What wonderful writing.

This is a great reminder that the "just world" fallacy [successful people deserve their success because they worked hard and that the less fortunate/unemployed somehow deserve their failure] is just that, a fallacy.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#14

What wonderful writing. This is a great reminder that the "just world" fallacy [successful people deserve their success because they worked hard and that the less fortunate/unemployed somehow deserve their failure] is just that, a fallacy.

> This is a great reminder that the "just world" fallacy is just that, a fallacy.

Where do you see that? He specifically concludes that he's making the right (ie "just") amount of money for writing and coding, and that it's "just" that the CFO makes more money than the coal-miner because his skills are more specialised and in higher demand.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#15

Very well written article, I always enjoy reading stuff from the intersection of writers and coders. What I found startling was how different my experience has been to that of the author's at the start of the article. I've put up with some horrific jobs paying miserable money in some of the most uninspiring industrial parks you could imagine. I've taken work in dingy Victorian offices so cold that I've had to program…

The problem is that it's hard to show your real skill level (especially on back-end work) so getting access to these better jobs is 90% how you market yourself and where you are (New York and Silicon Valley rents are horrid, but worth every penny in comparison to 95% of places) and only 10% based on your skill level (much less unrealized potential).

You don't have to be a celebrity, but you have to be some combination of accessible and validated.

The good news is that marketing yourself is actually a lot easier than programming. You don't need a natural social acumen to do it. I know this because I'm pretty good at it and certainly do not have natural social talents.

If you want to experience "reverse interviews", you have to be in a technology hub.

That said, the dynamic is not as engineer-favorable as people make it out to be. Sure, a good engineer can get 5 in-bound contacts from recruiters per week-- again, that has more to do with self-marketing than skill level-- but most of those don't mean anything. Most often, it's just an invitation to send a resume into the normal process.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#16
Virtue is not value.

Value is not virtue.

What you consider virtuous may produce no economic value. Or maybe it does. There's no rigid formula that connects them and the Just World Hypothesis is an illusion that traps fools and wisemen alike.

Attempts to browbeat the world out of "is" and into "ought" have been universal failures and I retain every confidence that it will be ever thus.

James Somers might find Hayek's writing to be a bit repetitive and languid; but he will find the ideas illuminating. It seems like his father tried, but failed, to make the insight really stick.

There has never been a Just World where Virtue = Value. No matter how badly we want it, there can't be. And trying to forcefully make one generally just makes it much worse.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#18

Very well written article, I always enjoy reading stuff from the intersection of writers and coders. What I found startling was how different my experience has been to that of the author's at the start of the article. I've put up with some horrific jobs paying miserable money in some of the most uninspiring industrial parks you could imagine. I've taken work in dingy Victorian offices so cold that I've had to program…

It's particular to the New York startup scene. There is a lot of money sloshing around and startups have a different hiring strategy than in Silicon Valley. It's quick to hire, quick to fire. I've had six figure offers without even going through a real interview. This leads to a lot of churn. One place I worked at ran through three almost entirely different engineering teams in 18 months. It will be interesting to read if the author of this article still has the same job in the fall.

Silicon Valley is a bit different. There is usually a gauntlet of multi-day interviews even for the lowliest position at a startup nobody has heard of. It's even more of a gauntlet at the large, established companies. I've heard of someone doing 10 days of interviews at amazon.com, and they are a company most want to avoid. Companies are very afraid of hiring the wrong person.

As you have noted, most everywhere else the developer is made to feel lucky to work at a folding table in an unheated area next to the men's room.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#19

Very well written article, I always enjoy reading stuff from the intersection of writers and coders. What I found startling was how different my experience has been to that of the author's at the start of the article. I've put up with some horrific jobs paying miserable money in some of the most uninspiring industrial parks you could imagine. I've taken work in dingy Victorian offices so cold that I've had to program…

Sounds like you live somewhere where there isn't much development going on.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#20
post #8

I think the real issue is that there's people with lots of money that are willing to fund a lot of different companies in the hope of stumbling across the next facebook. Result? A whole host of well funded but ultimately useless apps and websites. Meanwhile, the people who can make these websites are making lots of money. It's probably a bubble to some extent. Eventually, if the return from all these web apps is less…

People with lots of money have been disappointed by the performance of traditional investment vehicles for the past 5 years; meanwhile a lot of extra money has been put into the financial sector.

If you're a fund with $100 billion under management, dropping $2 billion into various venture funds is a reasonable part of the mix. Multiply that by the fact that several hundred funds, banks, trusts and companies collectively control trillions of dollars and these little 1 or 2 percent investments pump billions of dollars into tens of thousands of companies with collectively perhaps a few hundred thousand employees.

When every buyer is cashed up, prices for sellers rise.

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