Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012 • Hacker News Board

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#51

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 9:47 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #29

citricsquid wrote: post #3

The documentary mentioned about his bi-polar is available on Amazon (and without permission on Youtube) for anyone interested, it's a very good insight into bi-polar and depression, worth the 120 minutes: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808482/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry:_The_Secret_Life_of... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Frys-Secret-Manic-Depressive...

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease . And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this. Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "m…

As a counterpoint, I offer Robert Sapolsky, who most emphatically calls depression a disease:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#52

Post by ghswa » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 9:49 PM UTC

solomatov wrote: post #44

adrianbye wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is ignored (thanks to psychiatry being left wing, and trying to mitigate the downside rather than build on the upside) is that bipolar brings a lot of BENEFITS. when bipolar people are very hyper, they can achieve great things. thats the reason why people with bipolar usually don't want to be medicated - the highs bring genius.. the problem are the lows which follow it. average people don't make the big breakthr…

In bipolar disorder, depressive episodes are much more common than manic episodes. They get high , but they suffer much more than they gain from their illness and AFAIK, bipolar depression is much worse than usual unipolar depression and much much worse than depression caused by life events.

I'm not aware of any conclusive research showing that depression is more common than mania although people are more likely to seek treatment when depressed than when they're manic.

I also struggle to believe that there is any evidence to support your claim that depression as experienced by somebody who is bipolar is worse than somebody who is unipolar which is again worse than depression caused by life events.

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#53

Post by gruseom » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 9:51 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #42

winter_blue wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease . And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this. Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "m…

Fry has Bipolar Disorder, diagnosed in England. This is a very different illness to depression. And depression has different forms. Yes, talking therapies are powerful. But you seem to be making the mistake that a talking therapy isn't affecting brain chemistry, or that drugs are inherently bad. Comments like yours are very frustrating. Do you talk about people ignoring the real human factor when we put a broken bone…

But the biological theory of mental illnesses is very far from established. We have no reliable way of identifying them and no understanding of their mechanism. Existing studies of the medications we use to treat them have been subjected to pretty devastating critique; e.g. the most comprehensive review of the SSRI studies (by Irving Kirsch et. al.) found no clinical significance beyond placebo for the vast majority of patients.

The belief that mental illness is biological ("chemical imbalance in the brain" and so on) is very widespread and very emphatic. But the gap between that and what we actually know is drastic. What explains that gap? Most likely, it's that (a) people very much want to believe it, and (b) the belief has been heavily marketed.

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#54

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 9:53 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #29

citricsquid wrote: post #3

The documentary mentioned about his bi-polar is available on Amazon (and without permission on Youtube) for anyone interested, it's a very good insight into bi-polar and depression, worth the 120 minutes: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808482/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry:_The_Secret_Life_of... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Frys-Secret-Manic-Depressive...

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease . And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this. Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "m…

[deleted]

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#55

Post by edwkar » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:03 PM UTC

gregorymichael wrote: post #10

I have bipolar and ADHD. I've been speaking on it at tech conferences this year [1]. Recently we started devpressed.com [2], a forum where the tech community can talk about depression. We need to destigmatize mental illness so that our friends and coworkers aren't ashamed to ask for help. There are a lot more people going through this than you think. If you're struggling, and don't have anyone to talk to, check out d…

Devpressed seems like a really good initiative! Looking at HN's submission history, and from personal experience, I believe such a forum is much needed. As a student or professional struggling with mental illness, having someone to speak to that knows your world, is extremely valuable. Keep up the good work!

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#56

Post by m-ramige » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #50

ghswa wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in these cases the situation can be exasperated by well meaning friends, relatives and practitioners searching for a root cause that, if addressed, will make it all go away.

Jesus christ, yes. This is why many people suffering from mental illness don't talk about their problems: they end up feeling worse because their friends either try to "fix" them, or they end up comforting the friend, or both. It's always with the best of intentions, but I recently had an experience where I truly understood how terminal cancer patients feel; a friend wanted so badly to help, and kept feeling worse an…

I always cringe when I hear or read a non-depressed person's advice to a depressed person. It often involves getting more exercise and going out in the sun. Getting more exercise and sunlight might help this person, but it probably won't be enough. The person will probably need cognitive-behavioral therapy and maybe even medication. Even then, a depression-free life is not guaranteed. Mental illness is complicated.

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#57

Post by meric » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #50

ghswa wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in these cases the situation can be exasperated by well meaning friends, relatives and practitioners searching for a root cause that, if addressed, will make it all go away.

Jesus christ, yes. This is why many people suffering from mental illness don't talk about their problems: they end up feeling worse because their friends either try to "fix" them, or they end up comforting the friend, or both. It's always with the best of intentions, but I recently had an experience where I truly understood how terminal cancer patients feel; a friend wanted so badly to help, and kept feeling worse an…

If I was one of your friends, would you have liked me to have just treated you as I normally do? If I had someone close who was dying, when I'm seeing them I think I'd just interact with them as I normally do (though accepting and recognising they are, in fact, dying), and not let the fact that they were dying to get in the way of our relationship. I rationalize this by thinking people don't want to feel being pitied upon. They want to feel important; and seeing them just because I want to see them would help in that regard.

Am I doing the right thing?

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#58

Post by coldtea » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:12 PM UTC

marquis wrote: post #35

winter_blue wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease . And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this. Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "m…

The many many people in our lives suffering from a chemical/medical issue can not solve their problems with therapy alone. Depression is multi-factored and definitely partly chemical - maybe for some it's solved by spending more time in the sun but for many of our friends it is a serious clinical issue not to be mistaken as having a purely talk-it-out solution. Stephen is an excellent example here: he has the sheer i…

>maybe for some it's solved by spending more time in the sun but for many of our friends it is a serious clinical issue

Or so a 21st century corrupt medical establishment, that abuses and neglects science in favour of greed (from inventing mental issues out of thin air to over-prescribing medication, to even advocating unnecessary operations) likes to tell people.

Depression sure is a true medical condition for some (relatively few) people -- but in the quantities and degrees it affects the general population though, it's anything but.

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#59

Post by daeken » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:12 PM UTC

meric wrote: post #57

daeken wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ, yes. This is why many people suffering from mental illness don't talk about their problems: they end up feeling worse because their friends either try to "fix" them, or they end up comforting the friend, or both. It's always with the best of intentions, but I recently had an experience where I truly understood how terminal cancer patients feel; a friend wanted so badly to help, and kept feeling worse an…

If I was one of your friends, would you have liked me to have just treated you as I normally do? If I had someone close who was dying, when I'm seeing them I think I'd just interact with them as I normally do (though accepting and recognising they are, in fact, dying), and not let the fact that they were dying to get in the way of our relationship. I rationalize this by thinking people don't want to feel being pitied…

Yes. Absolutely, absolutely, yes. What I want more than anything else: to feel normal. Even if it's just for 10 minutes while we're bitching about how bad some new album is, or playing a game. I won't say that's universal, but in my case I can't imagine anything better.

Re: Stephen Fry reveals he attempted suicide in 2012

#60

Post by vacri » Wed, Jun 05, 2013, 10:14 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #29

citricsquid wrote: post #3

The documentary mentioned about his bi-polar is available on Amazon (and without permission on Youtube) for anyone interested, it's a very good insight into bi-polar and depression, worth the 120 minutes: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808482/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry:_The_Secret_Life_of... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Frys-Secret-Manic-Depressive...

When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease . And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this. Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "m…

Please stop spreading misinformation. There are many kinds of depression, and there are two significant camps - little-d depression, which is depressed mood from negative life events (missing the bus up to funerals) and big-d Depression, which has biological elements and is what people mean by 'clinical depression'.