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China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

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Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#21

Post by narrator »

blake8086 wrote: post #19
narrator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the dogged persistence of the west in digging up events from more than 20 years ago and trying to carve the narrative of Chinese history of 1 billion people over the last 30 years around this event that lasted maybe two weeks and involved a few thousand. Think of the billions of people, their lives changing, the greatest mass migration in history to the cities, the greatest uplift in economic standards o…

But the PRC is still censoring it, right?

And the west is still endlessly editorializing about it. Excessive repetition is a kind of intellectual violence.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#22

Post by kps »

narrator wrote: post #21
blake8086 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the PRC is still censoring it, right?

And the west is still endlessly editorializing about it. Excessive repetition is a kind of intellectual violence.

I can understand how it must hurt to get run over by an intellectual tank.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#23

Post by caseysoftware »

yaix wrote: post #20

It always amazes me how we like to talk about Tiananmen, but never ever mention Tlatelolco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_massacre ). Maybe, because a week after the massacre, and only 2 km away, we happily inaugurated the Olympic Games. And not one Western country even got upset about what happened. After all, the Mexican one-party-state of the time were one of "our bastards". (The same party that govern…

I'm absolutely not downplaying what happened in Tlatelolco but I'd wager that in addition to the Olympics aspects, there are other things at play:

October 1968 was the height of the Vietnam War and a US Presidential election was less than a month away, US (and much of the world's) news coverage would have been focused on those. The Soviet Union was still the big ugly monster in the room which means most world history classes focused on that period would talk Cold War and detente.

On the other hand, June 1989 was a time of relative peace in the western world. The Soviet Union was around but waning as the Berlin Wall would fall just months later.. which makes Tiananmen stand out that much more.

I think most importantly is that cable news and the 24 hour news cycle had been born in the interim. It meant that we saw footage from Tiananmen Square practically as it was happening.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#24

Post by ghshephard »

narrator wrote: post #18
masonhensley wrote: post #3

It is amazing the lengths the PRC takes to cover up this issue[1]. You would think at some point the party would disavow the actions of their predecessors or try and marginalize connections to the past event rather than keep sweeping it under the rug. Next year will be the 25th anniversary, that will be interesting. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-censors-block-big-yel...

It's amazing the dogged persistence of the west in digging up events from more than 20 years ago and trying to carve the narrative of Chinese history of 1 billion people over the last 30 years around this event that lasted maybe two weeks and involved a few thousand. Think of the billions of people, their lives changing, the greatest mass migration in history to the cities, the greatest uplift in economic standards o…

If the PRC didn't go to so much effort to censor this event (which was, beyond just the human cost, a very pivotal moment in authoritarian china development), it would likely get less attention. Streisand effect, writ large.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#25

Post by [deleted] »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #14
vilhelm_s wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the Kent State shootings give some kind of scale to the event. There, four people were killed, and we still listen to the Neil Young song about it. It's hard to imagine what hundreds or thousands of deaths (Wikipedia) would feel like.

Well, we do have hundreds-of-unexpected-deaths events in recent memory (Sep. 11 2001 ~= 3000) though, conspiracy theory notwithstanding, that's not our own government doing it. Also, there were fires and explosions and billions in property damage and clouds of toxic smoke. Oddly enough, I can't actually name any songs about the event off the top of my head, though.

[deleted]

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#26

Post by [deleted] »

yaix wrote: post #20

It always amazes me how we like to talk about Tiananmen, but never ever mention Tlatelolco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_massacre ). Maybe, because a week after the massacre, and only 2 km away, we happily inaugurated the Olympic Games. And not one Western country even got upset about what happened. After all, the Mexican one-party-state of the time were one of "our bastards". (The same party that govern…

[deleted]

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#27

Post by ajross »

darkarmani wrote: post #4
masonhensley wrote: post #3

It is amazing the lengths the PRC takes to cover up this issue[1]. You would think at some point the party would disavow the actions of their predecessors or try and marginalize connections to the past event rather than keep sweeping it under the rug. Next year will be the 25th anniversary, that will be interesting. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-censors-block-big-yel...

But it is working so "well!" Is this a cultural mechanism or just the poor way that the PRC handles it?

Sustained double-digit growth rates work very well as an unrest suppresion device. Seriously: the Chinese people are simply too busy being vastly wealthier than their parents to notice their lack of personal freedoms or representation in government.

It's sad, but true. But it will correct itself eventually, hopefully with less bloodshed this time.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#28

Post by sageikosa »

ajross wrote: post #27
darkarmani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is working so "well!" Is this a cultural mechanism or just the poor way that the PRC handles it?

Sustained double-digit growth rates work very well as an unrest suppresion device. Seriously: the Chinese people are simply too busy being vastly wealthier than their parents to notice their lack of personal freedoms or representation in government. It's sad, but true. But it will correct itself eventually, hopefully with less bloodshed this time.

Parts of the Chinese nation are too busy being vastly wealthier than their parents. China has a decent-sized first and comparatively large second world economy embedded in the world's largest third-world economy.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#29

Post by sageikosa »

narrator wrote: post #21
blake8086 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the PRC is still censoring it, right?

And the west is still endlessly editorializing about it. Excessive repetition is a kind of intellectual violence.

Since "the west" isn't a secret cabal, but rather a generally broad and open concensus opinion; I'd say that "their" editorializing on the actions of a secretive cabal to suppress information is rightfully poignant.

Re: China Snuffs Out Discussion of Tiananmen

#30

Post by bangkoknights »

masonhensley wrote: post #3

It is amazing the lengths the PRC takes to cover up this issue[1]. You would think at some point the party would disavow the actions of their predecessors or try and marginalize connections to the past event rather than keep sweeping it under the rug. Next year will be the 25th anniversary, that will be interesting. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-censors-block-big-yel...

The media always shows a close-up photo of a man standing in front of three tanks.

This photo might surprise you.

http://imgur.com/N6mpnPY

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