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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#211

Post by anigbrowl »

therandomguy wrote: post #200
gbog wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inconvenient and better avoided. Toddlers cry, that's the normal thing. Some are unbearable and then a pacifier is ok but they become addicted and you're easily in deep shit if you travel and forget them or lose them (I had one in each pocket when taking a plane). I guess most kid don't really need it, parents need it, when they can't bear the cries. But even then I think you just postpone the annoyance. I have…

It is a self comforting device and recommended by AAP: http://goo.gl/ZnR17

Most babies come with perfectly serviceable thumbs for this purpose.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#212

Post by Florin_Andrei »

nawitus wrote: post #206
at-fates-hands wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great idea, until you remember Finland has a population of about 5 million. LA itself has a population of almost 4 million. While I think this a great idea, it's pretty easy to do with such a small population. Once you start talking about a scale the size of the US, it gets rather spendy in a hurry.

The cost per capita is the same, so your argument doesn't really make sense. By the way, I see that argument every single time when someone proposes the USA to do something better. "It's a big country, we can't fix anything".

It is in the nature of some people on the libertarian / autistic / engineering spectrum to look at any issue out there and reduce it to trivial financial arithmetic. It's not out of ill will, it's just that this is their entire reality.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#213

Post by rayiner »

anigbrowl wrote: post #211
therandomguy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a self comforting device and recommended by AAP: http://goo.gl/ZnR17

Most babies come with perfectly serviceable thumbs for this purpose.

Babies can't figure out how to suck their thumbs right off the bat. Mine took months to master it.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#214

Post by tych0 »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #212
nawitus wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost per capita is the same, so your argument doesn't really make sense. By the way, I see that argument every single time when someone proposes the USA to do something better. "It's a big country, we can't fix anything".

It is in the nature of some people on the libertarian / autistic / engineering spectrum to look at any issue out there and reduce it to trivial financial arithmetic. It's not out of ill will, it's just that this is their entire reality.

His point was that the financial arithmetic isn't prohibitive. A box full of stuff costs the same amount whether you give out 5 million or 300 million (in fact, economics of scale says that the US could probably do it cheaper than Finland can). We have 300 million people (or whatever the birthrate is) which is certainly more than Finland has, but we also then have 300 million taxpayers.

Sure, the absolute cost is higher, but the cost per capita is not.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#215

Post by refurb »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #194
jerf wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because social programs get their money from coercion. GitHub doesn't. (To the extent that you think you can find a private company that can and does use coercion, I object to that too.) Even as a liberatarian, I'm happy to say some things are well worth the coercion. But it should never be forgotten , because otherwise people do start thinking it's just free money that has no other concerns whatsoever, and start spe…

Because social programs get their money from coercion Language matters, and the verb 'coercion' in this context, to me, is actually repugnent. Here's what Wikipedia has to say ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion ): "Coercion /koʊˈɜrʃən/ is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or f…

Different strokes for different folks.

Taxes are certainly not voluntary. If you do not pay them, you will be coerced into doing so. Hence the use of the word.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#216

Post by GlennS »

rayiner wrote: post #128
arethuza wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One question I find interesting is to what extent governments should be in the business of building solidarity and shared values. Personally, I'm all for it - but that's a product of my age (40s), location (Scotland) and where I grew up (a small village in the North of Scotland). NB Having a father who served in the RAF during WW2 probably influenced me far more than I realised at the time - my political views around…

I think building solidarity and values is tremendously important, and here's why: what is the government really responsible for? Even as you go down the political spectrum to libertarians (short of anarcho-libertarians), you have consensus that government should at least provide security, from domestic crime and international threats, the enforcement of contracts, etc. Most people would go on to say that it's the gov…

What is the government really responsible for?

Large and long-term investments. Acting strategically over decades on behalf of millions of people. Most organisations aren't in a position to be acting on those scales.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#217

Post by [deleted] »

300bps wrote: post #147
mikeash wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly is this worth noting? Nobody jumps to point out that there's still somebody paying for the "free" tiers of Dropbox or GitHub or whatever. Yet the moment somebody mentions a "free" social program, people suddenly have to hammer on the point that somebody pays for it. We're not a bunch of imbeciles who think that social programs just rain from the sky....

There are plenty of people that think the government has unlimited money and should spend it on the people. These people don't know that it is literal wealth transfer from one person to another with the government acting as middle man. Sure, you may realize that this is the case but many people don't. It's the same mentality that leads people to believe that insurance companies should pay for everything until they re…

[deleted]

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#218

Post by rdtsc »

jan_g wrote: post #35
ProcessBlue wrote: post #33

Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It's been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes: - Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby's…

It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements. Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.

> It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payers

Not sure why you are saying that. It is something I would tell my 5 year old maybe. Perhaps some do think God makes cardboard boxes magically appear in Finland out of thin air, but is it really worth mentioning that in this forum, if you expect your audience to operate at that level?

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#219

Post by saraid216 »

Domenic_S wrote: post #191
rlpb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it. What if it turned out that the baby pays for it because the improved average upbringing allows the baby to earn more and consequently pay more tax in absolute terms, though not in percentage terms? Would it be a cost to the taxpayer then?

What if the improved upbringing opens up more opportunities for the child -- in other countries? So now instead of an average taxpayer you get nothing at all?

Obviously the opportunities afforded in your own country weren't sufficient and you should probably work on that rather than crippling children.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#220

Post by saraid216 »

flagnog wrote: post #143
rlpb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it. What if it turned out that the baby pays for it because the improved average upbringing allows the baby to earn more and consequently pay more tax in absolute terms, though not in percentage terms? Would it be a cost to the taxpayer then?

but you're assuming that this improves the upbringing.

If you're suggesting that health and parental attention does not contribute to a quality upbringing, I'd like to see some studies cited.
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