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Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

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Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#111

Post by jeffasinger »

bob13579 wrote: post #53
kailuowang wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mentioned in the article that joining the dealership network is relatively more difficult for a startup like Tesla than the other big manufacturers. Also I don't see why being able to sell directly to consumers should be count as a "special rule". On the contrary, being forced to find a dealer in the "network" to work between you and your consumer is.

It should be considered a "special rule" because an exception would be made for Tesla, and no one else (including other small car manufacturers). Either let every car manufacturer sell directly or don't.

The answer then, is to remove the "special rule" for everyone. Anyone (even companies that make cars) can sell them.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#112

Post by bob13579 »

btilly wrote: post #52

This is Interstate Commerce, pure and simple. What would be really nice is for Congress to pass a law saying these state laws are illegal and suddenly the floodgates would open. Of course all of the car manufacturers will protest that, and their lobbyists are more powerful than Tesla's. But the real plan is for Tesla to make cars and sell them where it can. In time as people see more and more of them being sold and w…

Manufacturers would love to sell directly. They're doing it in Europe and aren't trying to enact protectionist dealership laws to protect their interests from upstart competitors. Dealers are notorious for bad service, and you can't shut underperforming ones without large buyout fees.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#113

Post by jack-r-abbit »

skaevola wrote: post #77

This article is misleading - Tesla can and does sell cars in Texas (online), their "physical stores" just can't sell them. Also, Tesla wasn't denied the right, their bill was not voted on (an omission rather than an action). They'll undoubtedly bring it back up next session.

>They'll undoubtedly bring it back up next session.

Sure... in 2015. That is between 1.5 and 2.5 years away. That they don't meet again until 2015 is really crappy. How do they ever get stuff done?

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#114

Post by crapshoot101 »

maeon3 wrote: post #31

Tesla said it best: "Tesla will sell its cars the way it wants. If some states don't allow that, then Tesla will simply sell them elsewhere." When a piece of a neural network becomes corrupt and entrenched beyond repair, (cancerous) the tumor or cancer fights to protect itself, there are two solutions to these kinds of problems. 1. One solution is what Musk is doing, treat the dealerships as a cancerous growth in the…

Oh dear god, this is overwrought. Elon Musk is not the righteous cause, and everyone opposing him is not the devil, and this is not some dramatic showdown (to paraphrase a line from Serenity). I support changes to the dealer system, but when you start the arguement by suggesting your opponent is akin to a cancer, you're not showing any interest in that. If the dealer system changes, it should do so for everyone, not just Tesla.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#115

Post by gknoy »

Shivetya wrote: post #83
bob13579 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla currently has a market cap over $10B. That is larger than Fiat's.

doesn't answer the question, why should Tesla be granted an exception not available to other automakers? Chrysler has had all sorts of problems with franchise law in California in regards to operating their own.

From a different perspective, what's wrong with car manufacturers operating their own dealerships? (I'm curious: there very well may be a down side, but I haven't thought of it yet.)

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#116

Post by bjhoops1 »

jfb wrote: post #108
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is taking "part time" to the extreme.

I'm of two minds. Is it really OK to have fundamental decisions about a system as large and complex as Texas' state government ultimately be decided by so unserious a group of people? Or would they just do more damage if they were around more? I don't live in Texas, so I have no dog in the fight.

It would be nice if Texas' governor only worked part-time. Rick Perry is an utter moron. http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2011-10-28/just-say-no/

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#117

Post by jack-r-abbit »

jfb wrote: post #108
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is taking "part time" to the extreme.

I'm of two minds. Is it really OK to have fundamental decisions about a system as large and complex as Texas' state government ultimately be decided by so unserious a group of people? Or would they just do more damage if they were around more? I don't live in Texas, so I have no dog in the fight.

I don't live in Texas either (and I've been instructed to never mess with them) so I don't have a dog in the fight either. But it seems to me that if they meet every 2 years, the work load they would have during that meeting would be huge. Would attention to detail about what they are deciding on be hindered by having such a large volume of stuff? But maybe they do lots of stuff in between the meetings to prepare. It just seems odd to meet about stuff that might have been sitting there waiting for 2 years.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#118

Post by gnoway »

bob13579 wrote: post #24
hvs wrote: post #5

All too often, the media as well as average people mistake support for corporate interests as support for "free enterprise." When large corporate interests are essentially writing bills for lawmakers, "free enterprise" is precisely what is not being practiced.

Other car manufacturers can't sell directly. Why should Tesla get special rules?

For everyone else reading, you should look here:

ftp://ftp.legis.state.tx.us/bills/83R/billtext/html/senate_bills/SB01600_SB01699/SB01659I.htm ftp://ftp.legis.state.tx.us/bills/83R/billtext/html/house_bills/HB03300_HB03399/HB03351I.htm

The above are linked from here:

http://www.teslamotors.com/advocacy_texas

I believe the issue bob13579 is bringing up (in the least helpful and most aggravating way possible) is that these bills effectively single out Tesla. Read the amendment in section 1. I think it means that the exclusion would only apply to electric- or battery-only car manufacturers doing business in Texas on or before 3/1/2013. This is surely only Tesla.

My opinion is that the existing law should not exist. But it does, and (again, my opinion) if this bill had 'done the right thing' and tried to remove the protection for all dealers, it would have received even less consideration.

Is this protectionism something that can be tested for constitutionality in the courts? Has it been already? It seems like the sort of thing that ought to get litigated.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#119

Post by thedufer »

blktiger wrote: post #43
TamDenholm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesnt contribute to the OP's discussion but i thought i'd mention it anyway. Texas love executing people. Since 1976 Texas executed 498 people, the state in second place is Virginia with 110. Also, their supreme court does not hear criminal matters, only civil, because it makes the appeals process for executing people faster. But yeah, the law is a strange thing.

Texas has a little over 3x the population of Virginia with 4.5 times the number of executions. Keeping in mind that crime isn't necessarily consistent from place to place I don't think that is a drastically larger number proportionally.

That's assuming, of course, that Virginia is at all representative of the US as a whole. The median execution rate by state is about 1 per million residents since 1976. Texas's, while not the highest, is almost 1 per 50,000 residents. Its not the worst, but its still something of an outlier.

The worst, incidentally, is Oklahoma, at about 1 per 40,000 residents.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#120

Post by gknoy »

jonknee wrote: post #58
Rudism wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading some time ago that Tesla's loop-hole for opening storefronts is that they don't actually sell cars to people there... they just inform people about the cars and answer their questions. When it's time to actually buy one, they sit you down at a internet terminal and you order over the web just as you would if you were purchasing from anywhere else.

I don't believe Texas even allows for in-store internet sales. Last I heard Tesla couldn't even inform people in the store how much the cars cost. Tesla also cannot deliver the vehicle to the customer, the customer must provide arrangements. Oh, no test drives either. It's absolutely ridiculous. I assume they opened the store just to have a better argument against the dealership cartel. http://stateimpact.npr.org/tex…

I wonder if they could get around the "no test drives" rule by opening a "Tesla Car Rental" chain, where you can rent a Tesla for a day. This way they are neither selling nor testing cars, but people who are interested would be able to try it out.
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