Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

treehugger.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 183 posts

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#61

Post by stephenhuey »

Rudism wrote: post #7
bratsche wrote: post #3

There's already a Tesla store in Houston. How did they open that store, and will they be able to keep it open? I've seen a couple Teslas driving around Dallas, and am hoping to see more.

I remember reading some time ago that Tesla's loop-hole for opening storefronts is that they don't actually sell cars to people there... they just inform people about the cars and answer their questions. When it's time to actually buy one, they sit you down at a internet terminal and you order over the web just as you would if you were purchasing from anywhere else.

Correct. They do not sell cars at the Houston Galleria store:

http://www.teslamotors.com/houstongalleria

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#62

Post by LanceH »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #44
bob13579 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how you single out Texas for doing this. How is this different from other states?

Texas, the state being discussed here, is generally touted as a free-market success story, without having an actual free market. EDIT: Typo, correct 'marker' to 'market'.

The difference is that Texas isn't actively writing these laws today. States like Cali and Mass are passing new laws to create barriers to entry.

The car dealer, alcohol and sex laws are all from a long time ago. The alcohol and sex laws are being changed rapidly here.

If only place Texas politics gets really weird is with education and schoolbooks where a small, vocal group concentrates its effort.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#63

Post by mindcrime »

bob13579 wrote: post #24
hvs wrote: post #5

All too often, the media as well as average people mistake support for corporate interests as support for "free enterprise." When large corporate interests are essentially writing bills for lawmakers, "free enterprise" is precisely what is not being practiced.

Other car manufacturers can't sell directly. Why should Tesla get special rules?

They shouldn't. ALL manufacturers should be able to sell direct to their customers. We have this same problem here in NC, and I'd be somewhat opposed to a bill which carved out an exemption just for Tesla. But I'd wholeheartedly back a bill that approved "direct to customer" sales across the board.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#64

Post by jack-r-abbit »

ajross wrote: post #51
maeon3 wrote: post #31

Tesla said it best: "Tesla will sell its cars the way it wants. If some states don't allow that, then Tesla will simply sell them elsewhere." When a piece of a neural network becomes corrupt and entrenched beyond repair, (cancerous) the tumor or cancer fights to protect itself, there are two solutions to these kinds of problems. 1. One solution is what Musk is doing, treat the dealerships as a cancerous growth in the…

The metaphor is cute, but maybe overstated. Tesla isn't doing this because it's what a self healing network would do. Tesla is doing this because it's a rapidly-growing startup whose production facilities are heavily oversubscribed already. They have no net downsides to giving up the "Texas" market for now, because they don't have enough cars to sell even without Texas (and the handful of other such states). Eventual…

>Once ramped up, they'll want that Texas market. And at that point someone will have to bend.

My money is on Tesla coming out on top here. Musk strikes me as the type of person that would rather give up sales while holding a huge "Fuck Texas" sign than to give in.

Edit: Added the parent comment I was responding to. Yes, Tesla is playing nice right now. That puts them in a better public opinion. But eventually they'll either step up their game or walk away from Texas. I don't see them giving in. But only time will tell here.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#65

Post by pattisapu »

TamDenholm wrote: post #20
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #10

For the record, you also cannot sell dildos in Texas. I don't know why people are always crowing about how Texas is the land that respects individual rights and free enterprise. It's not. It's the land of unlimited corporate malfeasance, unchecked pollution, and a ban on fire codes.

This doesnt contribute to the OP's discussion but i thought i'd mention it anyway. Texas love executing people. Since 1976 Texas executed 498 people, the state in second place is Virginia with 110. Also, their supreme court does not hear criminal matters, only civil, because it makes the appeals process for executing people faster. But yeah, the law is a strange thing.

> Also, their supreme court does not hear criminal matters, only civil, because it makes the appeals process for executing people faster.

No. Texas simply has separate civil and criminal courts. The Court of Criminal Appeals is the supreme court for criminal cases. The Texas Supreme Court is the supreme court for civil cases. A convict can appeal through the intermediate appellate courts and then the Court of Criminal Appeals (and then perhaps later state-level collateral attack or even federal habeas). The criminal appellate process in Texas has as many steps in it as most states have.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#66

Post by bob13579 »

mikeash wrote: post #50
bob13579 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm responding directly to his "large corporate interests" talking point, when those large corporate interests are barred from selling directly.

The "large corporate interests" being protected in this case are car dealerships, not manufacturers.

At a $10B valuation, Tesla is worth about 1000 times the average car dealership in Texas.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#67

Post by jack-r-abbit »

bob13579 wrote: post #57
toomuchtodo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law was put in place to protect dealers who invested their own money in their infrastructure from predatory manufacturer practices. Tesla has no existing dealer network, and therefore has no need to have said non-existed dealer network protected from them.

Yes, I agree that the law is a shoddy law but that shouldn't allow Tesla to sell directly. Would small car manufacturers get special rules too? Laws are laws. Either change the law or enforce it. That's fair. Not cronyism.

I think that is the point. Change the law. Ford, Chevy, etc may not want to go the "dealer not required" route and continue to use dealers. But at least there would be options.

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#68

Post by maeon3 »

ajross wrote: post #51
maeon3 wrote: post #31

Tesla said it best: "Tesla will sell its cars the way it wants. If some states don't allow that, then Tesla will simply sell them elsewhere." When a piece of a neural network becomes corrupt and entrenched beyond repair, (cancerous) the tumor or cancer fights to protect itself, there are two solutions to these kinds of problems. 1. One solution is what Musk is doing, treat the dealerships as a cancerous growth in the…

The metaphor is cute, but maybe overstated. Tesla isn't doing this because it's what a self healing network would do. Tesla is doing this because it's a rapidly-growing startup whose production facilities are heavily oversubscribed already. They have no net downsides to giving up the "Texas" market for now, because they don't have enough cars to sell even without Texas (and the handful of other such states). Eventual…

If the Texas Auto dealers were smart, they would buy some lobbyists to give extra incentives to Tesla to bring them on board with the corrupt system. For example, the dealerships selling the Tesla vehicle at no cost, or maybe even provide an additional $3000-7000 tax credit only for Texans. Or perhaps giving Tesla a bushel of cash for every Tesla sold (temporally) through dealerships.

Then when Musk is on board and massive profits streaming, the credits will revert back to burdens on Texans. The cancerous dealer network remains with us for another few decades until the next chance at a disruptive technology to remove it.

Car Dealerships should go the way of newspapers. Imagine if newspapers used their financial might to squish the Internet when it was just a wire between two research facilities? If newspapers hired lobbyists to create laws making it illegal to route around newspapers, then could they how long could they have delayed the internet?

Re: Texas won't allow Tesla to sell electric cars directly

#69

Post by skaevola »

bratsche wrote: post #3

There's already a Tesla store in Houston. How did they open that store, and will they be able to keep it open? I've seen a couple Teslas driving around Dallas, and am hoping to see more.

It's an "Educational Showroom" not a dealership. You can see the car and have questions answered about it but they can't tell you the price or actually sell you a car. You can buy a car online and they will ship it directly to your house (on a massive truck). Because it's not a dealership, you can't go there if you need repairs, instead there is a little repair truck which drives out to your house and repairs the car.
Post reply on HN