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Advice for young developers

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Re: Advice for young developers

#21

Post by showsover »

jmduke wrote: post #18
ed209 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on how you class "for free". Most people think free = not being paid money. I'm actually looking into working for the whole of July for no monetary compensation. But in return, I expect to learn something from whoever I work with/for. Most of the time money is good. You can exchange that for many things in life. But sometimes, knowledge is better to have as you can exchange that for (even more) money. An…

>> Most of the time money is good. You can exchange that for many things in life. But sometimes, knowledge is better to have as you can exchange that for (even more) money. This is a false dichotomy. With some very rare exceptions, you do not choose between monetary compensation and experience: you need -- and should get -- both.

Especially when starting out.

Re: Advice for young developers

#22

Post by justinsteele »

ed209 wrote: post #10
chollida1 wrote: post #5

> Work for free. This is my boilerplate advice for anyone getting started in any industry, not just web developers. Finding someone that will let you work with them is not that hard, if you offer to do it for free. Yikes.... I would never advise someone to work for free for a company. If you want to work on an open source project then that's probably a better use of your time. The problem with free is that it lowers…

That depends on how you class "for free". Most people think free = not being paid money. I'm actually looking into working for the whole of July for no monetary compensation. But in return, I expect to learn something from whoever I work with/for. Most of the time money is good. You can exchange that for many things in life. But sometimes, knowledge is better to have as you can exchange that for (even more) money. An…

I've learned the most in paid positions. Companies that value their employees with monetary compensation are far more likely to value learning and successful experiences than a company who decides you are worth $0 to them.

Re: Advice for young developers

#23

Post by crusso »

RuggeroAltair wrote: post #7

Advertising the 'work for free' thing pushes towards establishing a dangerous culture, in which slowly all first jobs are expected to be unpaid. And some companies would (and some already do) include these 'free' people in their business model. There is no reason why those companies can't pay a basic internship salary which at least allows you not to work somewhere else to be able to eat and sleep somewhere else than…

There is no reason why those companies can't pay a basic internship salary

You don't know that. Maybe the company is a totally new idea being started on a shoe string that can't afford to pay much of anything.

Maybe the product or project is a "what the hell" kind of project that doesn't really have any revenue associated with it but won't be even attempted without some free or mostly free time.

Where would the open source community be without people contributing to it for free?

Yours is the kind of thinking that leads to the ever-increasing minimum wage, which sounds great at first blush but whose unintended consequence is the killing off of whimsical tough-to-start or high risk ventures while also denying real experience to workers who lack the job skills needed to actually be productive at the required minimum wage.

Re: Advice for young developers

#24

Post by winter_blue »

mgkimsal wrote: post #20
RuggeroAltair wrote: post #7

Advertising the 'work for free' thing pushes towards establishing a dangerous culture, in which slowly all first jobs are expected to be unpaid. And some companies would (and some already do) include these 'free' people in their business model. There is no reason why those companies can't pay a basic internship salary which at least allows you not to work somewhere else to be able to eat and sleep somewhere else than…

You're forgetting all the foosball tables and sodas they have to provide for those free laborers (whoops - 'interns'). Those don't come cheap, you know.

> Those don't come cheap, you know.

The foosball table is not just for the interns, you know. It's for everyone. And soda is cheap.

So yea, they do come for cheap.

Re: Advice for young developers

#27

Post by columbo »

davemello wrote: post #8

Thanks, all, for the feedback! I just wanted to clarify on my 'work for free' point. If you have no real-world experience, get some. While you may not get paid at first, the amount of marketable skills you learn will more than pay for that. The point here is not to offer to work for free in hopes that you might eventually get hired (although that can sometimes happen). Rather, the point is that there are a lot of thi…

Volunteering at a non-profit is one thing, but you should never work for free at a for-profit company. Never. To go even farther, any for-profit company unable to pay even a reduced rate, equity return, or a sales commission shouldn't be hiring.

Re: Advice for young developers

#29

Post by greghinch »

chollida1 wrote: post #5

> Work for free. This is my boilerplate advice for anyone getting started in any industry, not just web developers. Finding someone that will let you work with them is not that hard, if you offer to do it for free. Yikes.... I would never advise someone to work for free for a company. If you want to work on an open source project then that's probably a better use of your time. The problem with free is that it lowers…

I read "work for free" as doing open source work, at least by contributing to projects you make use of regularly, which I whole-heartedly recommend. This alone has probably accounted for 50% of any success I've had in my career, in terms of making connections with other talented people, having publicly visible code (which has brought opportunities to me I was never even aware of), and of course honing my own skills.

Re: Advice for young developers

#30

Post by jaehoony »

crusso wrote: post #23
RuggeroAltair wrote: post #7

Advertising the 'work for free' thing pushes towards establishing a dangerous culture, in which slowly all first jobs are expected to be unpaid. And some companies would (and some already do) include these 'free' people in their business model. There is no reason why those companies can't pay a basic internship salary which at least allows you not to work somewhere else to be able to eat and sleep somewhere else than…

There is no reason why those companies can't pay a basic internship salary You don't know that. Maybe the company is a totally new idea being started on a shoe string that can't afford to pay much of anything. Maybe the product or project is a "what the hell" kind of project that doesn't really have any revenue associated with it but won't be even attempted without some free or mostly free time. Where would the open…

Are the companies that new in a such tough and risky situation the usual ones hiring interns? I was under the impression companies like that would just want few core highly efficient workers.
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