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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#121
post #116
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my understanding, parents in Finland don't normally know the biological sex of the child before birth. If the box is given before the actually birth, then it makes sense to make the colors gender neutral.

No, most parents in Finland do opt to find out. I presume it's just easier to mass-produce a box of unisex clothing, and as the article says you can then easily reuse the clothes for siblings.

I live in Sweden, so I assumed Finland had it similar. Here, parents are not always offered to know the sex. This is sometimes because of hospital policy, or because the ultrasound did not make it clear enough.

Thanks for giving a definitive answer.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#123
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I understand not wanting to know and I also understand wanting to know, but why would people keep it a secret? (Just in case I'm not judging, just curious)

Because some people basically go batshit crazy when they find out and start getting you super-strongly gendered stuff, and you want to put off having to deal with that crap for as long as possible is one reason. For example, if you have a baby shower _before_ the birth (yes, ok, you're having a baby shower to start with) and you haven't told people the gender, there's only so much bad they can do along those lines...

Interesting perspective, thanks!

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#124
post #35

Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It's been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes: - Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby's…

It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements. Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.

Why exactly is this worth noting?

Nobody jumps to point out that there's still somebody paying for the "free" tiers of Dropbox or GitHub or whatever. Yet the moment somebody mentions a "free" social program, people suddenly have to hammer on the point that somebody pays for it.

We're not a bunch of imbeciles who think that social programs just rain from the sky....

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#125
> It's a tradition that dates back to the 1930s and it's designed to give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life.

What a wonderful idea. My daughter was born in Chicago last year, and the hospital (Northwestern Memorial) gave us a little starter kit with bottles, pacifiers, some swaddling blankets, etc. I remember thinking as I walked out the door of the hospital that this was the last time that these kids would an equal shot at life.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#126
I would see how this box would give Finland one of the world's lowest infant mortality rates. You can't lug a crib with you to different rooms. With a box, you can bring it to the same room you occupy, greatly increasing the observation time of the baby. This is a nice gesture of this country. I can't say the same for the blatant waste of taxpayer money I experience in my country.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One question I find interesting is to what extent governments should be in the business of building solidarity and shared values. Personally, I'm all for it - but that's a product of my age (40s), location (Scotland) and where I grew up (a small village in the North of Scotland). NB Having a father who served in the RAF during WW2 probably influenced me far more than I realised at the time - my political views around…

The better question is why governments spend so much time trying to reenforce social stratification by placing so many qualifications on social programs.

Money. Resources are limited, so it makes sense to prioritise (Whether the resulting accounting efforts end up costing more than it's otherwised saved, it's another matter).

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#128

Now this is my kind of nanny state. A thought: This program started for low-income families but was extended after a few years to all families. The nice thing about universality rather than means testing is that a) middle class families are more apt to continue supporting it if they can experience its benefits first-hand; b) you save the money that would otherwise be spent testing, enforcing and auditing the system;…

One question I find interesting is to what extent governments should be in the business of building solidarity and shared values. Personally, I'm all for it - but that's a product of my age (40s), location (Scotland) and where I grew up (a small village in the North of Scotland). NB Having a father who served in the RAF during WW2 probably influenced me far more than I realised at the time - my political views around…

I think building solidarity and values is tremendously important, and here's why: what is the government really responsible for? Even as you go down the political spectrum to libertarians (short of anarcho-libertarians), you have consensus that government should at least provide security, from domestic crime and international threats, the enforcement of contracts, etc. Most people would go on to say that it's the government's job to provide at least basic education, utilities and transportation, etc, and do so with low waste and corruption. Fostering a culture of solidarity and shared values goes directly to those basic functions of government.

When you look at Scandinavian countries, and wonder how their systems work so well, you have to consider how shared culture and values plays a role in that success. When you wonder why the welfare state works so poorly in the U.S., you can't ignore the impact of the tremendously acrimonious culture we have, steeped in animosity between the races and between different socioeconomic classes. And if you go further down the spectrum of dysfunction, you can't help but notice the stark contrast between the extensive but relatively corruption-free governments of the Scandinavian countries and the very limited but highly corrupt governments of places like India or Bangladesh. I think that comes from a lack of solidarity. There is no motivation to, say, not take a bribe, if your mentality is that you're only in it for yourself.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#129
post #121
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most parents in Finland do opt to find out. I presume it's just easier to mass-produce a box of unisex clothing, and as the article says you can then easily reuse the clothes for siblings.

I live in Sweden, so I assumed Finland had it similar. Here, parents are not always offered to know the sex. This is sometimes because of hospital policy, or because the ultrasound did not make it clear enough. Thanks for giving a definitive answer.

Why would there be a hospital policy against gender disclosure?

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#130

> It's a tradition that dates back to the 1930s and it's designed to give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life. What a wonderful idea. My daughter was born in Chicago last year, and the hospital (Northwestern Memorial) gave us a little starter kit with bottles, pacifiers, some swaddling blankets, etc. I remember thinking as I walked out the door of the hospital that…

Not sure that the pacifiers are a good idea, do they have them in the Finland box?
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