Is it possible to buy these and get them shipped outside of Finland?
Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
41–50 of 275 posts
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements. Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.
True, true, I didn't want to go into that because that way lies a never ending comment chain on fiscal policy ;-).
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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know the differences, probably more than you realise. I presented a hypothesis, which you can turn into a theory by sitting outside ASDA for a bit with a clipboard and a copy of SPSS. My suggestion was that you should try it.
Then you should know that your hypothesis remains unsupported by any data until that is done, and that it's not the job of people who doubt your hypothesis to do so. Apart from that, the location itself would introduce a bias, and I'm curious how exactly you would recognize women in the process of spending the maternity grant.
Yes it is unsupported. I admit that. But it's clearly observable. I'm sure many people here observe it regularly.
You specify the problem the wrong way around.
The women got pregnant because the maternity grant was offered as is a cosy council house and a career of being pregnant. That's how it works here.
When you have three children like myself you spend a lot of time around parents and maternity units and the general consensus of the particular social stereotype is that a baby is a meal ticket and the £500 would go nicely on some Uggs and enough Silk Cut to get you through the first 9 months after it's born.
You can see the results of the maternity grant spending at ASDA which is basically the decked out in designer brand children being pushed around in their expensive buggy but the mother is buying £50 worth of cigarettes and her other three children are consigned to economy grade processed meat wrapped in breadcrumbs and some reconstituted potato product and some panda pops as their entire diet.
It's not down to poverty: just selfish idiocy, apathy and a complete lack of morals and ethics.
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#44But does it decrease infant mortality? According to the CIA Facebook 2013 figures, Finland has the 12th lowest infant mortality . Not sure if this means the scheme works, or if simply paying a pregnant woman $50 each time she visits a doctor prior to birth would be a cheaper alternative (with the same outcome). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mor... The WHO recommends countries record all bab…
Did you read the article? "In the 1930s Finland was a poor country and infant mortality was high - 65 out of 1,000 babies died. But the figures improved rapidly in the decades that followed." It's now 3/1,000.
Did you read my comment, what about the article? They only give the box (or money) to mothers who visit a doctor. I was suggesting that the doctor was the reason, not the box, and that the the gift pack (which includes a cardboard box) is just an incentive.
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
correlation/causation. E.g. Italy does not have baby boxes, and child mortality went from 60/1000 to 3/1000 in the last sixty years too. This happened basically everywhere, and either cardboard boxes play a big role and are used everywhere, or the effect is quite limited.
The article does not claim that the cardboard box itself played a big role. It implies that the requirement to get prenatal care in order to receive the box played a role. EDIT: And it's not even making a strong claim about that. From the article "Mika Gissler, a professor at the National Institute for Health and Welfare in Helsinki, gives several reasons for this - the maternity box and pre-natal care for all women…
well the thing about the article is that it singles out finland as if something special happened there, while similar improvements happened basically everywhere in the first world
I wouldn't dream of saying national healthcare in finland is the same as italy or US, which appears to imply that what really happened is mostly just science marching on and general improvements in wealth.
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> contents of the box and all the associated materials such as the written guides on infant care None of that did anything either, since other countries didn't have them and infant mortality went down there too.
Food for tought: if Norway has the same infant mortality rate and is substantially richer, does that mean something? I am not exactly a socialist but the Finnish people still impress me again and again. (Happen to have a few friends and/or relatives from Finland. )
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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> contents of the box and all the associated materials such as the written guides on infant care None of that did anything either, since other countries didn't have them and infant mortality went down there too.
Food for tought: if Norway has the same infant mortality rate and is substantially richer, does that mean something? I am not exactly a socialist but the Finnish people still impress me again and again. (Happen to have a few friends and/or relatives from Finland. )
It means Norway found oil and gas.
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm willing to bet that U.S. infant mortality is the same or even lower -- for people of Finnish descent. Why?
I believe that comment is supposed to be an allusion to the following: A Scandinavian economist once stated to Milton Friedman: "In Scandinavia we have no poverty." Milton Friedman replied, "That's interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either." Indeed, the poverty rate for Americans with Swedish ancestry is only 6.7%, half the U.S average. Economists Geranda Notten and Chris de Neubo…
Sounds like Friedman stopped at the first 'why' instead of going to the usual 5+.
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please read up on the difference between anecdotes and data, and selective perception.
I know the differences, probably more than you realise. I presented a hypothesis, which you can turn into a theory by sitting outside ASDA for a bit with a clipboard and a copy of SPSS. My suggestion was that you should try it.
Your original statement was "the maternity grant (until yanked by the government) was used to buy designer gear for the mother, ..."
That it's happened at least once, I have no doubt. But I think you mean to use the phrase "was used to buy" to mean that it happens often enough to base a policy decision upon.
The useful questions are "how often does it happen?" and more importantly "did yanking the policy lead to overall improved infant mortality rates?"
Those cannot be answered by "sitting outside ASDA [in Feltham or Hounslow] for a bit." As an extreme example, even if 100% of the people in those two places immediately pop into an off-license, use the money to buy liquor, walk outside, and pour it down the drain, you would need to see if that pattern is the same across the country.
In this extreme example, it might be that 0% of the rest of the country misuses their funds. There are 254,00 people in the London Borough of Hounslow. There are 62 million people in the United Kingdom. If no one else misused those funds, then an overall misuse rate of 0.4% across the entire country is rather good, and the appropriate policy decision would be to understand what is special about Hounslow and how that one region might be improved.
Thus, doing as you suggest would not provide sufficient information to establish an answer for my first question, much less my second.
While you write "Some things are blatantly obvious if you peel your eyes occasionally and observe humanity.", it's very hard to "peel your eyes" and see things when you aren't there.
How many cases of infant mortality have you seen?
Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know the differences, probably more than you realise. I presented a hypothesis, which you can turn into a theory by sitting outside ASDA for a bit with a clipboard and a copy of SPSS. My suggestion was that you should try it.
Then you should know that your hypothesis remains unsupported by any data until that is done, and that it's not the job of people who doubt your hypothesis to do so. Apart from that, the location itself would introduce a bias, and I'm curious how exactly you would recognize women in the process of spending the maternity grant.
I'm sorry, but since your comment is entirely unsupported by a citation explaining philosophical fallacies or similar, your criticism remains unsupported, and hence it's not the job of the person you're responding to to satisfy your demand.
What a vicious circle we create by demanding citations for any claim.