Visual Studio 2013 • Hacker News Board

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#121

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:14 PM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #63

MartinCron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full version vs. service pack distinction doesn't really matter to me.

It makes a lot of difference to some PHB's, though. I'm pretty sure I can upgrade to a service pack. Changing versions, OTOH, probably requires approval from management.

> I'm pretty sure I can upgrade to a service pack. Changing versions, OTOH, probably requires approval from management.

Two things are apparent: 1) The problem you are addressing is a management problem in your organization, not a problem with Microsoft releasing a new version of VS. 2) You aren't the decision-making customer for Microsoft VS at your organization, so even the problem you had was with VS, it wouldn't necessarily be a problem MS would have much incentive to address.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#122

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:16 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #72

mkr-hn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other words around those words. ajross is describing a corporate environment where the choice is sometimes made for you.

I understood Microsoft shops as Windows ISVs, if he meant companies 100% committed to Microsoft tooling then you are right and I made an hasty comment.

For every Windows ISV there are a hundred companies where the software development toolchain is chosen by someone with nothing more than a thin grasp of the concepts involved.

They read in magazines the new shiny IDE has better team support and integrates seamlessly with Exchange and the SharePoint intranet deployed last year.

But let's be realistic here. Most of those shops will never hire someone to write C++ code. In all likelihood, they are still porting VB3 apps to VB.net.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#123

Post by trust-me » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:16 PM UTC

pointyhats wrote: post #73

gokhan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try R# with VS.

Try R# with VS in a solution with 54 projects and ~ 1.5MLOC... It stinks!

Are you serious? That's a medium size project, just get a fast machine (e.g. i7 4770) and you'll be perfectly fine.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#124

Post by terrymah » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:19 PM UTC

dthunt wrote: post #120

terrymah wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually about to sit down and write a blog post about VS compiler memory issues, and I had a long talk with the Firefox guys a few weeks ago about this issue. It's not all their fault.

Awesome - where's it likely to get posted?

Visual C++ Team blog

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#125

Post by trust-me » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:22 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #57

vyrotek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously! My company has been keeping up with the latest stuff but I have hard time understanding what the justification was behind releasing a whole new Visual Studio version. Are there new features that won't be available in VS 2012? I guess we'll see at the Build conference.

Update 3 was the last one. Maybe Microsoft is tight on money. :)

VS is not there to make money directly, but to sell MS platforms - Windows, SQL Server, etc. They give it away for free to students, startups and pretty much anybody who asks. The only reason all editions are not free is to not kill the other commercial Windows IDEs.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#126

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:28 PM UTC

dthunt wrote: post #120

terrymah wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually about to sit down and write a blog post about VS compiler memory issues, and I had a long talk with the Firefox guys a few weeks ago about this issue. It's not all their fault.

Awesome - where's it likely to get posted?

[deleted]

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#127

Post by yuhong » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:29 PM UTC

ryanmolden wrote: post #117

cpeterso wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla has been fighting the MSVC linker's 3GB virtual address space limit for years. Mozilla has asked Microsoft for a 64-bit linker that can produce 32-bit code, but Microsoft apparently has no plans for such a configuration. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/mozilla.d...

I am a bit confused. That thread seems to claim that Microsoft isn't producing a 64 bit linker, my install seems to disagree with them (vc\bin\amd64). Then you claim that the linker won't produce 32 bit code, but /machine:x86 seems to disagree with that. I tested this by building as 32 bit, then just repeating the link using the 64 bit linker and /machine:x86, worked fine. So what are their problems exactly? That the…

The problem is cl.exe for x86 is only 32-bit, and the design of most build systems don't make it easy, especially as Mozilla was using PGO.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#128

Post by yuhong » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:31 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #110

dthunt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I want to know is how someone can see that their software project has become unlinkable on a 32-bit OS and somehow think that this is purely a compiler problem.

Keep in mind that this is the group that thinks de-prioritizing 64-bit windows builds is a-okay while at the same time they need 64-bit windows machines running 32-bit linkers to build their 32-bit windows binaries. ...phew, what a mouthfull. Mozilla has never struck me as the most... forward looking.

For one thing, I don't think their JIT produces code that properly follows the Windows x64 ABI yet. It really should be disabled in 64-bit builds until they do.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#129

Post by jussij » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:34 PM UTC

kabdib wrote: post #98

Permit wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what kind of improvements would you like to see in Visual Studio?

Server farm builds. A keyboard macro system that doesn't suck (e.g., is available and /as fast/ as the one in Emacs). A way to compare project configurations without involving either XML or a sea of random dialog-like boxes. The TFS and workflow features they are adding make me weep.

> A keyboard macro system that doesn't suck (e.g., is available and /as fast/ as the one in Emacs).

FWIW the Zeus IDE has keyboard macros that can be recorded/written in Python, Lua, Javascript or VB Script and it can even import VS woskpaces.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#130

Post by jlgreco » Mon, Jun 03, 2013, 11:40 PM UTC

yuhong wrote: post #128

jlgreco wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that this is the group that thinks de-prioritizing 64-bit windows builds is a-okay while at the same time they need 64-bit windows machines running 32-bit linkers to build their 32-bit windows binaries. ...phew, what a mouthfull. Mozilla has never struck me as the most... forward looking.

For one thing, I don't think their JIT produces code that properly follows the Windows x64 ABI yet. It really should be disabled in 64-bit builds until they do.

Their stated reason for de-prioritizing 64-bit builds wasn't technical; rather they say they don't have the manpower to do both. Perhaps the manpower issue is that they don't have enough people to work on the JIT issues on x64 and do everything else, but I do not believe they specified.