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Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

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Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#21

Post by anigbrowl »

mcphilip wrote: post #13

Playing the devil's advocate here. What is wrong with the Sun-Times making this decision if it is shown that having a staff trained in 'iPhone photography basics' allows the ST to cut costs without hurting revenue? An iconic photo (e.g. Tank Man photo [1]) opportunity is a black swan event, after all. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

An iconic photo (e.g. Tank Man photo [1]) opportunity is a black swan event, after all.

The photo opportunity is, but the ability to exploit the opportunity and get a good photo is not.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#22

Post by parsnips »

astrodust wrote: post #18
mcphilip wrote: post #13

Playing the devil's advocate here. What is wrong with the Sun-Times making this decision if it is shown that having a staff trained in 'iPhone photography basics' allows the ST to cut costs without hurting revenue? An iconic photo (e.g. Tank Man photo [1]) opportunity is a black swan event, after all. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

Why not go one further and train their staff to search Flickr and Twitter for images instead? What about firing all the editors and teaching the writers to do that themselves? Get rid of all the janitorial staff and mandate everyone spend more time cleaning up.

Well...

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#23

Post by iharris »

kfury wrote: post #2

Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't. Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

My thoughts exactly. For controlled situations where the photographer can dictate the subject's distance, pose, and lighting, I'm sure an iPhone would do just fine. But often, a photojournalist finds themselves in a situation where the environment is beyond their control: a concert with a laser light show, fast-moving athletes in action, or coverage of a natural disaster where your distance requires a telephoto shot.

Don't get me wrong - I use my iPhone's camera frequently and I think it's great. But as a photojournalist where your story (and your livelihood) depends on "getting the shot", you need to be knowledgeable and prepared to shoot in the worst conditions possible. The iPhone can do some awesome things, but you just can't fake good glass with software.

Full disclosure: I sell event photos to my local newspaper that I could not have gotten at all if I had used my smartphone.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#24

Post by kfury »

astrodust wrote: post #18
mcphilip wrote: post #13

Playing the devil's advocate here. What is wrong with the Sun-Times making this decision if it is shown that having a staff trained in 'iPhone photography basics' allows the ST to cut costs without hurting revenue? An iconic photo (e.g. Tank Man photo [1]) opportunity is a black swan event, after all. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

Why not go one further and train their staff to search Flickr and Twitter for images instead? What about firing all the editors and teaching the writers to do that themselves? Get rid of all the janitorial staff and mandate everyone spend more time cleaning up.

You think you're using hyperbole but many articles going out nowadays never get read by an editor who actually edits for tone, readability, spelling, or even accuracy.

And the janitorial staff? You might be surprised to know how many of the actual journalistic sites you read don't even have offices, or at least not ones with desks for writers. Most of these people work at home.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#25

Post by kfury »

blhack wrote: post #19
kfury wrote: post #2

Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't. Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

>the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism. I think you joke, but you might have accidentally made an excellent point. My girlfriend, to pay her bills, is a journalist. One of the things that she's talked about a lot (I'm paraphrasing here, these aren't her words) is that contemporary journalists don't have any balls anymore. The joke is:…

I do joke, but with truth. As Al Franken popularized it, I was 'kidding on the square'.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#26

Post by kfury »

potatolicious wrote: post #12
kfury wrote: post #2

Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't. Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

Photojournalism has never been about depth-of-field shots nor long telephoto shots. Photojournalism has always been primarily wide, deep depth of field, and more about lighting and composition than anything else. Shooting "real" photojournalism with an iPhone is more than doable. Hell, the iPhone's field of view is a 28mm equivalent, which is perfect for photojournalism. I don't disagree with the overall point about…

And my comment wasn't about photojournalism. Thinking journalists can become photojournalists by telling them to snap pictures (with their phone or with professional glass) is even more ridiculous than the Sun-Times is being.

Don't conflate News Photography with Photojournalism. The second is a subset of the first. News Photography is a field that requires greater diversity than 'being there at f/8 (in daylight, with a fast lens and a ready camera)'.

There are sports photographers, portrait photographers, close subject photographers, artistic photographers and, yes, photographers who need to be on the scene at breaking events, where a wide shot and being close are key.

I agree with everything you said, but it doesn't negate anything I said.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#27

Post by kfury »

pkulak wrote: post #17
kfury wrote: post #2

Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't. Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

F/8 and be there. That still works with an iPhone. EDIT: Okay, so an iPhone can never actually do f/8, but I think my point still stands...

Take someone with a DSLR on their hip and someone with an iPhone in their pocket and see who can get the shots you want. Subjects don't stand still and they won't wait for you to be ready.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#28

Post by hnriot »

kfury wrote: post #26
potatolicious wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Photojournalism has never been about depth-of-field shots nor long telephoto shots. Photojournalism has always been primarily wide, deep depth of field, and more about lighting and composition than anything else. Shooting "real" photojournalism with an iPhone is more than doable. Hell, the iPhone's field of view is a 28mm equivalent, which is perfect for photojournalism. I don't disagree with the overall point about…

And my comment wasn't about photojournalism. Thinking journalists can become photojournalists by telling them to snap pictures (with their phone or with professional glass) is even more ridiculous than the Sun-Times is being. Don't conflate News Photography with Photojournalism. The second is a subset of the first. News Photography is a field that requires greater diversity than 'being there at f/8 (in daylight, with…

it does negate what you said, you argued that shallow depth of field and telephoto shots were what's needed, and this is wrong, as was pointed out.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#29

Post by jonknee »

potatolicious wrote: post #12
kfury wrote: post #2

Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't. Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

Photojournalism has never been about depth-of-field shots nor long telephoto shots. Photojournalism has always been primarily wide, deep depth of field, and more about lighting and composition than anything else. Shooting "real" photojournalism with an iPhone is more than doable. Hell, the iPhone's field of view is a 28mm equivalent, which is perfect for photojournalism. I don't disagree with the overall point about…

Perhaps, but most of the iconic photos I remember aren't ones that an iPhone could take. Just take a scroll through Boston's Big Picture blog.

Re: Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’

#30

Post by ShabbyDoo »

Via eBay, I bought some 50's thru 70's era Chicago SunTimes vintage 8x10 file prints. Apparently, someone acquired their physical archives? The skill of photo journalists in those days was astounding. There were beautifully composed photos of the 1968 riots -- while people were rioting! I'm not suggesting that today's PJ's aren't as skilled, but it's certainly easier with a DSLR.
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