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Visual Studio 2013

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Re: Visual Studio 2013

#41

Post by pjmlp »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #22

I wish they would dedicate more time to improving cl.exe and link.exe in terms of performance and language support and less time with these hokey team visualization gimics. Every release since 2008 has been getting slower and slower for C++, the C compiler is awful, PGO instrumentation in Win8 is less capable, and there's no equivalents in the Windows ecosystem to gcc's likely/unlikely, oprofile, or valgrind. It's at…

C is officially deprecated.

Personally I would like to see proper C++11 support instead of playing around with C++/CX and while they are at it, either provide a native compiler for .NET or improve NGEN's optimizer for C++ performance level.

Given that Microsoft had .NET native compilers for Singularity and Windows Phone 8 .NET apps are compiled to native code, it isn't as if they don't have the tooling already available.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#43

Post by pjmlp »

evo_9 wrote: post #8

Way way way way, WAY too soon Microsoft... most shops, including my current employer aren't even on 2012 yet... Honestly I prefer VS to be tied to desktop OS releases or SQL release or something other than yearly. This is not a Madden game, nobody is asking for yearly updates for Visual Studio.

> This is not a Madden game, nobody is asking for yearly updates for Visual Studio.

Sadly it seems to be the way it is going. Most likely driven by Windows 8.1.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#44

Post by ajross »

sriramk wrote: post #31
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #22

I wish they would dedicate more time to improving cl.exe and link.exe in terms of performance and language support and less time with these hokey team visualization gimics. Every release since 2008 has been getting slower and slower for C++, the C compiler is awful, PGO instrumentation in Win8 is less capable, and there's no equivalents in the Windows ecosystem to gcc's likely/unlikely, oprofile, or valgrind. It's at…

ex-VS person here (from 5 years ago though). It is never an either-or. It is always a complex mix of what customers ask for, what the strategic priorities/market realities are. Often the problem with these queries is that there are not enough devs complaining to MSFT. No PM/engg manager is going to ignore a bug/problem if it shows up high in customer requests. On promotions - I think it's the reverse problem. People…

> Often the problem with these queries is that there are not enough devs complaining to MSFT. No PM/engg manager is going to ignore a bug/problem if it shows up high in customer requests.

Note that you switch between "devs" and "customer" there. I argue that the real problem is that for VS those demographics are different. Devs in "Microsoft shops" don't go out and decide on a complier, they use VS because that's all there is. And the decision to purchase that compiler is made for them by the suited management class who frankly don't care about C++11 support beyond what they see in a line item checklist.

But you're right, that clearly the "devs" have preferences. The problem with your mechanism is that they don't express them to you in customer service requests. They just job-hop to another environment, doing Javascript work, or Linux, or Ruby. And you never hear from them.

Basically, the way feedback works in this world is with feet, not bug reports. If you build it they will come. If you don't they will leave.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#45

Post by archangel_one »

TylerE wrote: post #29
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #22

I wish they would dedicate more time to improving cl.exe and link.exe in terms of performance and language support and less time with these hokey team visualization gimics. Every release since 2008 has been getting slower and slower for C++, the C compiler is awful, PGO instrumentation in Win8 is less capable, and there's no equivalents in the Windows ecosystem to gcc's likely/unlikely, oprofile, or valgrind. It's at…

How hard would it be to create stub apps that really just call out to clang/llvm?

Not hard. But how hard would it be to make large existing codebases which have always been built by VC++ compile against them? Very. Let alone the institutional aversion to admitting their competitors have done something better than them...

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#46

Post by acqq »

mischanix wrote: post #7
r4vik wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

menu still shouting

I don't mind it. It's not like it's high-contrast, large font, or bold, it just serves as a heading for the menus they show without making the font large or bold. It's definitely nowhere near as annoying as intellisense randomly breaking and putting a red line underneath half your statements.

> intellisense randomly breaking and putting a red line underneath half your statements

There's a reasonably simple solution with which you can solve the red line problem, if you're talking about the C and C++ projects:

http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/5...

"Posted by JoeWoodbury on 25/02/2010 at 10:16 (...)

The solution is to add the location of the stdafx.h file to the include path list. This is often a matter of simply putting a dot comma (.,) as the very first item in a projects include list."

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#47

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

As someone who uses reharper to make the IDE cool, git for source control, teamcity for builds, nunit for C# tests, mocha and testacular for js tests, and a goddamn whiteboard, cards, pens, and blue-tack for "agile portfolio management", I'm not seeing a lot here that interests me.

I'm underwhelmed with the desire to suck all activities into the one tool to rule them all. Especially when it rules them from bleh TFS.

I want VS to let me write code. I want to find and manipulate text. I want it to compile fast and produce relevant warnings. I want a debugger. I want it to host duiverse plugins. That's mostly it. ALM? I'm probably doing whatever it is that you mean by that and I don't care about integrated tools for it.

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#48

Post by Locke1689 »

echohack wrote: post #33
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #22

I wish they would dedicate more time to improving cl.exe and link.exe in terms of performance and language support and less time with these hokey team visualization gimics. Every release since 2008 has been getting slower and slower for C++, the C compiler is awful, PGO instrumentation in Win8 is less capable, and there's no equivalents in the Windows ecosystem to gcc's likely/unlikely, oprofile, or valgrind. It's at…

My assessment: Gimmicks: - Popout explorer windows (So you can get the old style Pending Changes window, if you like) - Make comments and discussions on code through web UI - New release management plugin - “Team rooms” allow your team to collaborate on code "I'm OK with this" improvements: - “Indicators” in code that give you info about blocks of code - Cloud load testing - More agile portfolio management options -…

Do you have any managed improvements you'd really like to see?

Re: Visual Studio 2013

#50

Post by tracker1 »

vyrotek wrote: post #9

I'm actually a bit relieved to see a new version of VS so soon. The Entity Framework team said that v6 would come out with the "New" Visual Studio and I was wondering how long that would be. Apparently it's a lot closer than I thought.

Personally, it's a bit unnerving to see a new version instead of another update so soon imho... an upgrade is nicer than having yet another version of VS installed... the VS installer installs so many bits and pieces, it's nearly impossible to get rid of all of the last version to upgrade to the new one.

I'd rather see a 2012.3 version... I'd also like to see a LOT more stability, as well as a non-building project (for external systems) that still has a pre/post-build event, but no compile step from inside VS... (mainly for projects that use other runtimes/build systems but make sense to include in a VS solution.

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