Live data from Hacker News

A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

bitcointalk.org

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#21
I just really liked this quote in the comments because it made me chuckle -

"You don't get into positions of power of life and death over proles by being ignorant, only acting as if you are, which is genius-level sociopathy. If you REALLY try it sometime, you may just become the President of the United States, and have the power to slaughter babies in the Rose Garden in front of the world's press, and not suffer any real punishment whatsoever."

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#22
Governments are terrified of Bitcoin and are trying to destroy the value by eliminating providers of liquidity. No buyers, no value. As to some of the comments stating that they have not been "suspended by the state" - that is a disingenuous argument that only a lawyer could love. The state sent them a letter accusing them of violating laws that carry the organizational equivalent of the death penalty, and possible jail time for the founders. It was intended to threaten and intimidate them into suspending operations, and it worked.

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#23
post #5

> Effective the May 31st, 2013 Tangible Cryptography has suspended new purchases of Bitcoins through our service FastCash4Bitcoins. We take this step in response to a notice received, the same day from the Commonwealth of Virginia, that a complaint has been made that our company is operating as an unlicensed money transmitter. Note that they're basically acting as the middle-man, not storing anything - I'm not really…

When faced with options that include "shut down" and "go to prison", I don't know if that counts as voluntary anymore.

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were told they must stop if they are not exempt. The companies position is that they are exempt. They have chosen not to gamble that the commonwealth will rule in their favor during the appeal; however, that is their choice and they could have continued to operate.

A smaller entity being threatened by a larger entity is a form of force. Do you think you pay taxes "voluntarily" also?

Yes, because you can always relinquish your citizenship and leave the country if you don't want to pay taxes. It should be noted that all "voluntary" market transactions occur pursuant to the implicit threat of force. When I buy something, I reserve the right to invoke the state's use of force if the product is say defective, while the seller reserves the right to invoke the state's use of force if my payment is say counterfeit currency. Per your definition, there are no voluntary transactions in any country with even the most basic government. Which is certainly a self-consistent definition, though it's arguably not that useful unless you believe that full-fledged anarchy is feasible.

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#27

Governments are terrified of Bitcoin and are trying to destroy the value by eliminating providers of liquidity. No buyers, no value. As to some of the comments stating that they have not been "suspended by the state" - that is a disingenuous argument that only a lawyer could love. The state sent them a letter accusing them of violating laws that carry the organizational equivalent of the death penalty, and possible j…

Alternative interpretation: governments couldn't give a rat's ass about Bitcoin, but care deeply about financial institutions (at least, those too small to purchase legislators) actually following the rules.

This company is transmitting money, Virginia requires companies that transmit money to be licensed, this company is not licensed, seems pretty straightforward to me.

One can argue about the merits of the regulation in question, but since regulations like this long predate Bitcoin, it's clearly not any sort of reaction to Bitcoin or any other virtual currency.

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#28
post #27

Governments are terrified of Bitcoin and are trying to destroy the value by eliminating providers of liquidity. No buyers, no value. As to some of the comments stating that they have not been "suspended by the state" - that is a disingenuous argument that only a lawyer could love. The state sent them a letter accusing them of violating laws that carry the organizational equivalent of the death penalty, and possible j…

Alternative interpretation: governments couldn't give a rat's ass about Bitcoin, but care deeply about financial institutions (at least, those too small to purchase legislators) actually following the rules. This company is transmitting money, Virginia requires companies that transmit money to be licensed, this company is not licensed, seems pretty straightforward to me. One can argue about the merits of the regulati…

Wrong. This company does not sell Bitcoins - they buy them (the state's "initial investigation" - which likely consisted of reading a complaint filed anonymously by a competitor - had this entirely wrong). They are only "transmitting money" in the same way that people who buy things from Amazon or eBay are when they buy products. By your definition, I guess I need to become a licensed MSB next time I buy a replacement power supply on eBay.

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative interpretation: governments couldn't give a rat's ass about Bitcoin, but care deeply about financial institutions (at least, those too small to purchase legislators) actually following the rules. This company is transmitting money, Virginia requires companies that transmit money to be licensed, this company is not licensed, seems pretty straightforward to me. One can argue about the merits of the regulati…

Wrong. This company does not sell Bitcoins - they buy them (the state's "initial investigation" - which likely consisted of reading a complaint filed anonymously by a competitor - had this entirely wrong). They are only "transmitting money" in the same way that people who buy things from Amazon or eBay are when they buy products. By your definition, I guess I need to become a licensed MSB next time I buy a replacemen…

How is this really any different from Western Union?

Re: A Bitcoin service suspended by state of Virginia

#30

Governments are terrified of Bitcoin and are trying to destroy the value by eliminating providers of liquidity. No buyers, no value. As to some of the comments stating that they have not been "suspended by the state" - that is a disingenuous argument that only a lawyer could love. The state sent them a letter accusing them of violating laws that carry the organizational equivalent of the death penalty, and possible j…

It's disappointing that this is the highest-ranked comment on the thread.

The government of Virgina is not terrified of Bitcoin. As a state, Virginia does not have the power to issue monetary currency. What Virginia cares about is that money transmitters--of any currency--which send money into or take money out of the state are subject to regulations to protect the citizens and residents of that state.

A legal suspension is a very different thing from a voluntary shutdown. One is the state's use of legal force--the other is the business choosing not to challenge a form letter before any legal proceedings have even begun. A form letter, legally speaking, is like a boxer saying he's going to destroy his opponent--before the match has even been arranged.

Post reply on HN