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What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

laurencegellert.com

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Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#101

Post by Silhouette »

_pmf_ wrote: post #56
hgh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True - often "full stack developer" is synonymous with dilettante

> True - often "full stack developer" is synonymous with dilettante To me, it reads like this: let's take away one of the only advantages of the web, the strict separation between frontend and backend, by mercilessly introducing heavy coupling and making one end depend completely on the other end for the sake of short-term one-off projects. After all, rockstar developers have long moved on to their next glorious proj…

To me, it reads like this: let's take away one of the only advantages of the web, the strict separation between frontend and backend

Interesting position. To me, that strict separation is more often a curse than a blessing in web development.

I'm all for maintainable, modular software architecture, and you obviously have a distributed system if you're running some parts on a server and some parts in a browser. However, I don't see why it's helpful to elevate the physical barrier where the remote comms fits to a kind of "strict separation" more than any other case of separating concerns.

IME the browser/server divide tends to introduce heavy overheads (on the scale of using completely different programming languages, and marshalling all useful data from one form to another) that don't in themselves offer much benefit in return. It also tends to push less experienced developers into treating the entire system as composed of just two modules (front-end and back-end) or maybe three (throw in a separate database/ORM component) rather than thinking about what they're modelling, how their business logic needs to work, how their user interface logic should be structured, and so on.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#102

Post by ibudiallo »

It seems like full stack means a different thing for different people or different companies. I started as a full stack developer [1] and now am focusing mostly on business logic.

Usually for a big company specializing make more sense, that way they can hire experts in all fields.

[1] http://idiallo.com/blog/2013/05/from-full-stack-dev-to-backe...

Disclaimer: this is my blog, wrote it a few weeks ago.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#103

Post by randomdrake »

crazygringo wrote: post #81
don_draper wrote: post #58

To me, a Full Stack developer takes responsibility for the full stack. When a problem arises, she doesn't say: * It's a database problem. Call the dbas. * It's a network problem. Call the network folks. * It's an app server problem. Call the ops team. * It's a user interface problem. Call the UI team. A Full Stack developer first says, 'This is my problem until I can locate the problem and possibly identify someone m…

That's not the definition of full stack I've ever heard of before. To me, full stack means front end + back end -- can write good CSS and can write good queries. Knows how JavaScript's "this" works, and can intelligently converse about data sharding. Database administration, network problems, app servers -- these are most certainly NOT part of a full-stack developer's knowledge, any more than fixing the oven in the c…

That's an interesting definition. I agree with the OP and I don't think you did a good job writing a convincing argument regarding your definition.

I think it's because of your clouded definition of "stack" when talking about a full stack developer.

You first say: To me, full stack means front end + back end -- can write good CSS and can write good queries. Knows how JavaScript's "this" works, and can intelligently converse about data sharding.

Then you conclude with: The "stack" web developers are talking about is, for example, LAMP -- Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP (or pick your own stack)

Nowhere in your conclusive definition does JavaScript or CSS come into play. You began discussing various technologies and concluded with a description of back end development stacks (LAMP, LEMP, WAMP and so on), but not "full stack."

Your previous definition was a bit closer when you included JavaScript, HTML and CSS in my opinion.

When I think of a "full stack developer" it means that they can work anywhere in the entire technology stack, not necessarily the software development stack. That means they can SSH around to various services and fire up databases or tail log files or write JavaScript or generate Perl scripts or tweak CSS or anything in-between.

Are they a systems administrator? No.

Are they a database administrator? No.

Are they a front end developer? No.

Are they a designer? No.

Can they perform many of the common duties of those positions? I would hope so.

What you seem to have defined, is simply a front and back end developer, and not, in my opinion, a full stack developer.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#105

Post by a-priori »

rubiquity wrote: post #89

These dicussions remind me of a quote I once read. My apologies for not remembering the source: "Anyone who calls themselves a 'Full Stack Developer' clearly doesn't know how deep the stack really goes."

How deep do you mean? I once did a project that involved:

1) a kernel module to do packet-level manipulation (intercept, hold, modify, inject packets) of TCP streams in real time

2) a user-space daemon to control the kernel module (Python)

3) a web service to control the daemon (Java)

4) a web front-end to administer it (PHP, HTML, CSS, etc.)

I don't want to go into the details about what exactly this system did, but suffice it to say I worked in all parts of that stack. At another job I worked on DSP firmware code and in my spare time I've written simple OS kernels.

There isn't much deeper unless you're soldering wires (spent a summer doing that once...) and flashing FPGAs (never done that). These days I work on web applications doing everything from diagnosing production issues ('why is the database doing that..?') and coding on a Java back-end, to working on iOS and HTML5 applications.

You'd have a hard time saying I'm not a 'full stack developer' by any definition. But to be honest I don't like the term and don't call myself that. I just don't believe in pigeonholing myself into solving particular kinds of problems.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#106

Post by jmilloy »

We can use the term "full-stack developer" without having a definition, checklist, or example. In fact, I think it is pointless to do otherwise. We use the term as a shortcut in a highly context dependent manner, and will followup with details and specifics afterwards as context demands. I don't think there is such a thing as a "full-stack developer"; instead I think there are developers who use the term "full-stack" to refer to their skillset and/or interests. Recruiters aren't trying to hire "full-stack developers"; instead they use the term to cast a reasonably appropriate net, and then verify key skills and aptitudes at the appropriate time.

Also, "experience" and "full-stack" should be considered orthogonal modifiers. An inexperienced baker may not know how to bake some items; but that doesn't make them not a baker.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#108

Post by ripter »

muyuu wrote: post #29

Marketing term for web monkey jack-of-all-trades. Does it fly in interviews to claim you are an expert in absolutely everything? Just curious.

Large companies that I've worked for, yes. You might get passed up if you don't have the "Full Stack" keyword on your resume.

It's a shame that good developers can be passed up because they don't have the right keywords.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#109

Post by ninjakeyboard »

To me full stack means front and backend. You have to have css and js in addition to whatever is running on the servers and persistance. We have no frontend where I work - it's all hardcore SOA - I wouldn't call myself or any of us full stack.

I've done fullstack and it is a much softer skillset as you need to talk to a lot of people like product owners etc.

Re: What is a Full Stack developer? (2012)

#110

Post by pyre »

Silhouette wrote: post #98
pyre wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I self-describe as a full-stack web developer because I've worked on both the front-end and back-end without distinction, and have no particular preference to working on either. Is this considered a bad thing? I don't consider myself a 'rockstar.'

Is this considered a bad thing? On the contrary, I would describe it as normal, in the sense that all of these web technologies are just tools and protocols. Any software developer with broad experience ought to be looking at general software architecture principles and programming techniques and testing strategies and all the rest and then choosing whatever tools help them get the result they need. "Front-end develo…

  | a convenient shorthand for initially finding people
  | you can talk with intelligently about getting stuff
  | done.
I agree. I mostly use the term "full-stack web developer" to convey the idea that my experience isn't confined to a niche of solely "front-end" or solely "back-end" development.
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