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Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

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Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#71

Post by jasonkester »

keefe wrote: post #66
jasonkester wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tools. Spend a week writing C# in Visual Studio.NET with ReSharper installed, then try to go back to your old language and IDE. You'll understand.

I've never used those but how can it be so much better than eclipse + all the commercial plugins? Closed source can never beat open source in the end...

I spend more time than I'd like in Eclipse these days, and am consistently underwhelmed. It just can't hang with the intellisense features of VS.NET.

I spend entirely too much time in Eclipse hitting ctrl+space and getting nothing back. Often even when the thing I'm looking for is in the same file, let alone included thru an import. ReSharper will find references for things I haven't even imported. It really is that much better.

Oh, and VS.NET does have open source and commercial plugins (of which ReSharper is a good example.) It's every bit as open as Eclipse as far as extensibility is concerned.

In general, I find it's best when offering comparisons of two products to have actually used both products. That is the basis by which I consider VS.NET to be superior to Eclipse. I'd suggest you try them both before making up your mind for good.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#73

Post by edw519 »

Maascamp wrote: post #70
jrockway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best domain, then you're doing it the wrong way. "Best" != "Good" Web apps are no different than any other kind of app, except they take HTTP requests as input and generate HTTP responses as output. PHP does have some features for speaking HTTP, but that's about it. For the rest of the app, you are on your own. Let's look at the components of a web app, and see wh…

I rarely read such grossly misinformed posts on HN. A shame you spent so long on it.

Then enlighten us, please. Exactly what is "grossly misinformed".

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#74

Post by edw519 »

jrockway wrote: post #59
nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best demain, then you're doing it the wrong way. I've been writing PHP apps for a few years now, and I contribute to multiple PHP webapp projects, and I'm never fighting the language. PHP is capable of doing just about anything that any other language can do; you just have to work with PHP and stop trying to make it act like Ruby or Python. PHP has an absolutely e…

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best domain, then you're doing it the wrong way. "Best" != "Good" Web apps are no different than any other kind of app, except they take HTTP requests as input and generate HTTP responses as output. PHP does have some features for speaking HTTP, but that's about it. For the rest of the app, you are on your own. Let's look at the components of a web app, and see wh…

"For the rest of the app, you are on your own."

Did it ever occur to you that some of us prefer it that way?

I really don't mind rolling my own, especially if I'm going to use it thousands of times.

What I do mind is getting "painted into a corner" because the high level tool I'm using never accounted for something I want to do.

Everything I want to do I can do with php. It's stable, popular, and everywhere. It may not be the best, but I don't care. I'd rather spend my extra mental cycles on my customer's problems, not mine.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#75

Post by [deleted] »

Maascamp wrote: post #70
jrockway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best domain, then you're doing it the wrong way. "Best" != "Good" Web apps are no different than any other kind of app, except they take HTTP requests as input and generate HTTP responses as output. PHP does have some features for speaking HTTP, but that's about it. For the rest of the app, you are on your own. Let's look at the components of a web app, and see wh…

I rarely read such grossly misinformed posts on HN. A shame you spent so long on it.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#76

Post by bkudria »

tptacek wrote: post #31
juliend2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it's Exactly what i was looking for! Thanks a lot. I will definitely look at it! :)

Delivering work for paying clients in a vanity language because you're bored of PHP sounds pretty close to malpractice.

Malpractice (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpractice):

> In law, malpractice is a type of negligence in which the > misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance of a professional, > under a duty to act, fails to follow generally accepted > professional standards, and that breach of duty is the > proximate cause of injury to a plaintiff who suffers damages.

Using another language is not failure to follow generally accepted professional standards, and I doubt using another language can result in damages to the client. Please don't use technical (legal) terms if you don't mean it.

(Also, HaXe is not a vanity language, unless you like the rest of us calling your favorite language a vanity language too: "Pshaw! It just compiles to ASM!")

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#77

Post by abyssknight »

Your options are limitless, really but here are a few:

1. Pick a framework to make your PHP work less boring (CakePHP, CodeIgniter, Symfony)

2. Ruby on Rails or Python & Django

3. Slicehost ftw.

These days you can find a cheap host for just about anything except the Microsoft stack and even that you can get for a reasonable price.

If your clients are that cheap, get new clients.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#78

Post by abyssknight »

keefe wrote: post #23
vyrotek wrote: post #2

Asp.net MVC

What is the motivation for locking yourself into the micro$oft stack? Why not use Java with a javascript (jquery/yui/ext etc) front end or even (shudder) JSPs? Spring framework? Anything but .net lock in...

You started a flame war over vendor lock in? What about language lock in? DBMS lock in? Or even the forbidden OS lock in?

I don't care what you use, it has lock in of some kind. Get over it. VS2008, C#/VB.NET, ASP,NET, MSSQL are great tools. That's all these things are: tools. The end product is always the same. If you build something with Ruby you can't go back and fix it with PHP. Lock in? Yep.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#79

Post by Longhorn213 »

greggraham wrote: post #65
jasonkester wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tools. Spend a week writing C# in Visual Studio.NET with ReSharper installed, then try to go back to your old language and IDE. You'll understand.

I spent a year writing C# in Visual Studio and ReSharper, and it is nice, but I'm happier now doing Python with Emacs and the command line.

You are the exception rather than the rule. I love VS even without ReSharper. I haven't found a better IDE than VS.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#80

Post by keefe »

abyssknight wrote: post #78
keefe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the motivation for locking yourself into the micro$oft stack? Why not use Java with a javascript (jquery/yui/ext etc) front end or even (shudder) JSPs? Spring framework? Anything but .net lock in...

You started a flame war over vendor lock in? What about language lock in? DBMS lock in? Or even the forbidden OS lock in? I don't care what you use, it has lock in of some kind. Get over it. VS2008, C#/VB.NET, ASP,NET, MSSQL are great tools . That's all these things are: tools. The end product is always the same. If you build something with Ruby you can't go back and fix it with PHP. Lock in? Yep.

The point is you are locking yourself into a brand that has explicitly anti-competitive business practices, charges exorbitant rates for their licenses and not only shuns public standards but actively works to sabotage them! (ecmascript3 being the example I am thinking of the last) VS2008 is a tool, C# is a language. Locking yourself to C# (for all intents and purposes) locks you to development on a windows box using VS2008 and commits you to serious trouble deploying under linux or mac, most times. Is that the same as choosing Java or Ruby and vi vs emacs? No, no it is not.
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