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Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

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Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#411

Post by stevenwilkin »

tome wrote: post #141
stevenwilkin wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto, I don't need to put a huge amount of time into the admin side of things. The volume of recruiter emails & calls can be oppressing at times haha

Well it's genuinely great to hear you two have got so much work on. May I ask why you have not doubled your rates?

My current rate is nearly double the rate of my first contract which was equivalent to double my last permanent salary. This is after a few years of contracting, starting off in a low-cost city (Belfast, N. Ireland) branching out to Dublin and now London.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#412

Post by stevenwilkin »

pointyhats wrote: post #227
mseebach wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters generally aren't interested in you at any advertised rate, or even for any particular skill. They just see Java (substitute as necessary) and contracter in the general vicinity of each other and decide to call you up and smooch you, even if the job is not a good fit and pays half what you charge. Problem is, you often have to keep in touch with recruiters to keep the flow of work, so you can't just cut the…

This times a million. When I was doing contract from 2004-2007, a shit Nokia and an O2 PAYG phone was a good investment. Many times did I just chuck the thing in the bin. Recruiters will suck up to you even if you've ignored them for months. Commission vampires - that's all they are. You're just a line in a spreadsheet to them.

I just stopped putting my phone number on my CV about a year ago which cut down the calls a great deal.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#413

Post by MrQuincle »

john_flintstone wrote: post #147
MrQuincle wrote: post #125

Nice attempt, but how do you correct for bias here? What type of people visit HN? What type of people visit HN that come from the UK? At what point of the day? Which people are happy to fill in a questionnaire that shows how little they earn? It is probably skewed in the direction of high wages. To know that I would recommend at least the same poll for another European city and for several American cities.

What would figures for another European city tell us about London? Rates for programmers in Dublin are about 20% higher than London, but that says nothing about the London figures quoted here.

Of course the data tells you something. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-response_bias - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_desirability_bias (quote: Personal income and earnings, often inflated when low and deflated when high)

Something to cope with it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckman_correction

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#414

Post by pointyhats »

stevenwilkin wrote: post #412
pointyhats wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This times a million. When I was doing contract from 2004-2007, a shit Nokia and an O2 PAYG phone was a good investment. Many times did I just chuck the thing in the bin. Recruiters will suck up to you even if you've ignored them for months. Commission vampires - that's all they are. You're just a line in a spreadsheet to them.

I just stopped putting my phone number on my CV about a year ago which cut down the calls a great deal.

Good plan! Never thought of that!

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#415

Post by blindhippo »

arkades wrote: post #189
blindhippo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is entirely anecdotal so take it for what its worth. In Canada I've noticed that graduates of Computer Science programs can barely operate a computer by the end of things. They can write and explain some pretty cool advanced algorithms and explain it in Big O notation - yet the business value of this knowledge is almost nil. On the other hand, skills schools and engineering programs churn out better programmers…

What is a "skill school" for software development? I'm not from Canada, and unfamiliar with this.

Sorry for the late reply - skill school means places like SAIT/NAIT (in Alberta).

Basically diploma level or accredited degree programs. Most of these programs tend to focus on software development at a practical level, less on abstract concepts traditionally studied in Computer Science programs. The good ones focus specifically on developing software in one or two main technologies rather then a smattering of random stuff (:cough: Devry :cough:)

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#416

Post by draugadrotten »

davorb wrote: post #254
hnriot wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe geographically, but it's not in the EU and nobody in/from Europe or the Ukraine would ever say it's in Europe. Just like Russia is also geographically (at least in part) in Europe, but it's by no means European. Google (or books) are your friend :)

I'm from Europe and I would. In my experience it's only people from the US and possible the UK and/or Scandinavia that only think "Western Europe" when they say "Europe".

Very interesting. You are on to something - I am using Europe as shorthand for Western Europe. When I speak of Eastern Europe I always add Eastern. Just like when I speak of [North] America versus South America or [West] Germany vs East Germany.

However I would say this type of shorthand is far more widespread than UK and Scandinavia. My German friends adds Eastern Europe when speaking of Ukraine, too, as does my Italian friends.

The cultural differences in Europe are far more complex than an East-West divide. Saying that Ukraine has a European culture is like saying India and Japan have "Asian" cultures. It sure doesn't make them the same and frankly, it does not even very similar.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#417

Post by draugadrotten »

daveid wrote: post #192
lkozma wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am from Europe but have friends in Ukraine.. Ukraine is in Europe.

Geographically yes, but politically and culturally the line gets a little blurry. I think parent meant to say "I am from the European Union".

> I think parent meant to say "I am from the European Union".

Not really. I don't know of anyone who identifies by EU citizenship. Not even EU top level politicians. We're all nationals, and even 3rd world refugees becomes citizen of a nation rather than EU.

When speaking to people from US, I usually identify by from [country] or "from Europe". The latter seem to be enough for most mericans that think of EU countries as US states.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#419

Post by DrJokepu »

ramchip wrote: post #361
DrJokepu wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transport in London is anything but cheap. It is simply the most expensive urban public transport system I know of in terms of cost of monthly passes (or travelcards). Currently a monthly travelcard in zones 1-2 is £116.80 ($177.30). In comparison, a similar monthly pass in New York costs $112, $74 in San Francisco, $167 in Tokyo, $84.50 in Paris, $99.95 in Berlin, $100 in Chicago, $67.96 in Melbourne and so o…

Not sure what these prices are based on, but in Tokyo a monthly pass for all of a zone doesn't even exist - you'd get a pass for a specific route from station A to station B only, with no buses and so on.

"Tokyo Metro All-Line Pass" http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/types/pass

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#420

Post by ramchip »

DrJokepu wrote: post #419
ramchip wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what these prices are based on, but in Tokyo a monthly pass for all of a zone doesn't even exist - you'd get a pass for a specific route from station A to station B only, with no buses and so on.

"Tokyo Metro All-Line Pass" http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/types/pass

That's a good find, but note that the name is a bit misleading: "Tokyo Metro" is only one of many train/subway corporations in Tokyo, so the pass is far more restrictive than the London one. There are a few company-specific passes like this but they're rarely economical since you have to change company to get pretty much anywhere except on your own line.
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