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What is happening in İstanbul?

whatishappeninginistanbul.com

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Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#21

Post by pixie_ »

cpleppert wrote: post #20
pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

>> For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. That is so totally wrong I don't even know where to begin. For starters the caliphate was only a political force until the emergence of the seljuk turks. The turkish empire was European focused and never controlled persia or arabia.

Wikipedia must be wrong then you should correct it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#22

Post by barry-cotter »

cpleppert wrote: post #20
pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

>> For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. That is so totally wrong I don't even know where to begin. For starters the caliphate was only a political force until the emergence of the seljuk turks. The turkish empire was European focused and never controlled persia or arabia.

Persia was never an Ottoman posession but Arabia was, or at least most of it was. I'm too lazy to look it up on my phone. Caliph was among the titles claimed by the Ottoman Sultan and his claim was taken seriously by almost all Sunnis, particularly after the dethronement of the Mughals.

They didn't consider it among their more important titles until quite late, preferrimg Qaysar-i-Rum or Emperor of the Romans, but their claim to the Caliphate was long standing.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#24

Post by inoop »

barry-cotter wrote: post #14
pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

Nationalism is a thing, you know. The Turks look down on the Kurds and the Arabs, the Levantine Arabs think the Mashreqis are a bunch of hicks with oil, the Maghrebien middle and upper class are very French indeed and Iran is Shi'ite and will not be having anything to do with the Turks or Arabs if possible. And the ex-Soviet stans have two, three generations of official atheism. I could see, maybe, the unification of…

Out of interest, could you elaborate that last statement?

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#25

Post by fatihdonmez »

It started as a civilian resistance for excessive police force. Unique and special part of this movement was political distribution of people in it. Erdogan's party rule 3'rd times the government. At this point they changed from independent, democrat, liberal party to totaliter one. So people in the movement is consist of multiple former Akp (Erdogan's party) supporter, too. That's why it should be important for Erdogan. But instead he's arguing that most of them provoked by other forces so ignoring. But now, 3'rd day of activity, it changed from civilian movement to anarchist, provokative anti-governmental and mostly illegal movements. That's why now people should calm down. Because initial point of movement succeed it's purpose. Park is safe (court decision), police is off the Taksim Square.

ps: i'm talkin as person who was in activity actually and hurted by police brutality. #direngeziparki

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#26

Post by mc-lovin »

While I'm glad that people from Turkey are voicing there opinions here, I think there is also danger in being too credulous. The people who use English speaking social media are not necessarily representative of the whole population and the fact that people are able to spread their message on social media doesn't make them right.

I am still waiting to see confirmation of the existence of a media blackout in Turkey by the mainstream media, and the more general claims about the current regime are even harder to judge for an outsider.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#27

Post by fatihdonmez »

mc-lovin wrote: post #26

While I'm glad that people from Turkey are voicing there opinions here, I think there is also danger in being too credulous. The people who use English speaking social media are not necessarily representative of the whole population and the fact that people are able to spread their message on social media doesn't make them right. I am still waiting to see confirmation of the existence of a media blackout in Turkey by…

Yeah you're absolutely right. While I'm in protest, my father in another city talkin about provocateurs about us without knowing I'm part of it (btw not a provocateur). So there is two side of coin. About media blackout, there's no official claims but all media company are heavily in business with government so they can do it without any official requests. Which they did it because media during protests only broadcast cartoon movies and other stupid stuff. Here is the biggest mobile network of Turkey Turkcell -> http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981808

And here is the social media outage during the hottest time of protests -> http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/01/as-anti-government-protests...

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#28

Post by muhuk »

mc-lovin wrote: post #26

While I'm glad that people from Turkey are voicing there opinions here, I think there is also danger in being too credulous. The people who use English speaking social media are not necessarily representative of the whole population and the fact that people are able to spread their message on social media doesn't make them right. I am still waiting to see confirmation of the existence of a media blackout in Turkey by…

Perhaps you can watch these videos of police brutality while you are waiting for the official statement from The Ministry of Censorship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqQjPHtAZ6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsPC4TPAMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XThjR-7F0io

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQHOo2rOmWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y409ZrNLFqM

Of course, just because the cops are assaulting unarmed civilians doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong.

(edit: added one more video)

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#29

Post by DocG »

Uh, I am moving there at the end of the summer. That is pretty much last thing I want to see at the moment. I am hoping they manage to finish this thing before.

Although, I would prefer Turkey to be peaceful, I do understand and agree with these protest.

If there happens the worst case scenario and real revolution, does anyone have info, how safe it is after that usually?

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#30

Post by smutticus »

pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

I regret I have but one downvote to give you, sir.
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