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Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

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Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#51

Post by eli_gottlieb »

egeozcan wrote: post #20
Sven7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very easy to say. Politicians are just reflections of who we all are. And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today. There isn't a course on Khan Academy, that they can take, which tells them what to do when uncontrolled chain reactions are set off by Social networks. The results will always be messy. And to then say if they just did the "right thing" all will be well, isn't being very realistic. Wh…

Well, yes and no. It must true that they are the reflections of the society but this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job: Protecting the rights of the people, regardless of their vote, religion or anything that can be used to discriminate them. Yes there are always some people who become evil with their jobs but the percentage of wrongdoers among the politicians tends to be m…

Only Americans actually believe that the job of politicians is "protecting the rights of the people", and even then, most non-Libertarian voters in America don't actually believe that's the only job of politicians.

There's a fundamental trade-off: power attracts the corruptible, but a certain amount is necessary to get important jobs done.

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#53

Post by eli_gottlieb »

venomsnake wrote: post #5
swombat wrote: post #3

"Anyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic." Right, well, how can we debate the voice of reason? He's right! The world is black and white. I hereby invoke Godwin's law to declare that anyone who orders police brutality against largely peaceful protesters is Hitler reincarnated.

In the case of Erdogan you may not be that far off. Turkey is interesting country - the army there was the guardian of the secularism inherited from Kemal Ataturk. That is almost dismantled by now with the involuntarily help of the EU. Erdogan came after free elections and after that Turkey is moving in some very dangerous waters. Add instability in Syria into the mix and the semi civil war with the Kurdish minority.

He's certainly not Hitler. He is certainly, in some sense, a fascist.

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#55

Post by [deleted] »

eatitraw wrote: post #26
pinars wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have access to Internet, unfortunately, it does. I called my mom who lives in Eskisehir Saturday morning TST, and asked her about the protests. Her reaction was, "What protests?" If you get your news from TV, and if none of them broadcast the protests, then how would you know?

Sadly, when there is internet connection, the problem doesn't simply go away. In Russia, internet media are heavily censored too - so internet user has to make effort to obtain the information not biased in favour of Putin's government: there are only several "unbiased" regular online media(not counting social media like big social networks like facebook or twitter). It is much simpler to just turn on TV especially i…

[deleted]

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#56

Post by Jare »

skylan_q wrote: post #31
Jare wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some definitions of "society", he's not wrong. The wrong is in wanting one such kind of society for his country.

The wrong is in wanting one such kind of society for his country. Who decides that it's wrong or right?

Hopefully, people who have educated themselves via history, philosophy, political science, etc. and look for the well being of a majority of the population.

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#57

Post by muyuu »

_b8r0 wrote: post #12

Anyone who feels like menacing Turkish society by helping provide unfiltered Internet access could do a lot worse than set up a Lahana[1] node. Discussion here[2]. [1] - http://lahana.dreamcats.org/ [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810091

Cheers for that.

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#58

Post by klibertp »

Sven7 wrote: post #14
mindcrime wrote: post #7

The actual "biggest threat to society" is politicians.

This is very easy to say. Politicians are just reflections of who we all are. And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today. There isn't a course on Khan Academy, that they can take, which tells them what to do when uncontrolled chain reactions are set off by Social networks. The results will always be messy. And to then say if they just did the "right thing" all will be well, isn't being very realistic. Wh…

Bullshit. Maybe somewhere, in some country - maybe in yours - it's true. In many, many, MANY! (realize this) other countries politicians are a different breed of people, for generations raised in vastly different conditions; they see other things than others, they eat differently, they think in a way that is not comprehensible for many "normal" people in their countries. And that's only a tip of an iceberg, as there are external influences as well, which complicates matters further.

...on the other hand, would it be better if politicians were just a reflection of "who we all are"? I doubt it...

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#59

Post by icebraining »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #51
egeozcan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes and no. It must true that they are the reflections of the society but this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job: Protecting the rights of the people, regardless of their vote, religion or anything that can be used to discriminate them. Yes there are always some people who become evil with their jobs but the percentage of wrongdoers among the politicians tends to be m…

Only Americans actually believe that the job of politicians is "protecting the rights of the people", and even then, most non-Libertarian voters in America don't actually believe that's the only job of politicians. There's a fundamental trade-off: power attracts the corruptible, but a certain amount is necessary to get important jobs done.

European democracies don't believe that the job of politicians is protecting the rights of the people?

I'd say that's exactly what we believe in, it's just that our society has a different view of what the "rights of the people" are. Around here they'd include, as one of our songs says, "peace, bread, housing, health and education".

Re: Erdogan says social media 'danger to society'

#60

Post by InclinedPlane »

skylan_q wrote: post #29

Anyone care to say why he's wrong? I'd like a bit more elaboration from his argument, but it's possible that he's right.

He's not wrong. The internet is an enormous threat to existing societal norms, power structures, and even governments, there's no doubt about that. However, he is wrong in believing implicitly that the existing status quo should be defended. The internet has the potential to empower disruption, and in it's short history it has proven to excel primarily at disintermediation. However, for people who support the ideals of liberty, of governments that are consensual and responsive to their people these trends are not alarming, indeed they are salutary. But for rulers who rely on oppression, propaganda, etc. these things are scary.
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