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What is happening in İstanbul?

whatishappeninginistanbul.com

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Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#11

Post by muhuk »

pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

That will never be allowed to happen. A united middle east would be undesirable. The current state of chaos and poverty is ideal.

Personally, I wouldn't want that to happen either.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#12

Post by pixie_ »

muhuk wrote: post #11
pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

That will never be allowed to happen. A united middle east would be undesirable. The current state of chaos and poverty is ideal. Personally, I wouldn't want that to happen either.

'Not allowing it to happen' would probably be the most galvanizing thing the world could possibly do. Basically damned if we do, damned if we don't. That's why a new caliphate seems like a real possible outcome. Also a new Islamic empire would most likely ally with Russia and China. Already they veto action on anything middle east related in the UN.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#13

Post by kwx »

ZirconCode wrote: post #3
rdmirza wrote: post #2

Great idea, I was trying to figure out the story! I've read there's been an internal blackout -- the turkish media isn't covering the event.

Yes, I heard they also placed jammers inside the protest areas. I imagine this didn't help very much. I was unable to find the source again though. Technology seems to play a larger and larger role in providing freedom by giving individuals a voice and the power to exercise it.

Hm, I saw the opposite. Mainly every time there was poor reception it was due to overloaded cells.

TurkCell installed mobile repeaters in Taksim square yesterday. Even in the most heated of confrontions I still had cell, data and voice reception.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#14

Post by barry-cotter »

pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

Nationalism is a thing, you know. The Turks look down on the Kurds and the Arabs, the Levantine Arabs think the Mashreqis are a bunch of hicks with oil, the Maghrebien middle and upper class are very French indeed and Iran is Shi'ite and will not be having anything to do with the Turks or Arabs if possible. And the ex-Soviet stans have two, three generations of official atheism.

I could see, maybe, the unification of some of the Arab states but that's really about it, and I wouldn't bet that way. Pan-Arab nationalism probably reached its apotheosis with Nasser in the 70's. This is not to say that the next twenty or thirty years will be wine and roses. Yemen is going to look like a vision of hell for one thing.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#15

Post by mbreese »

pixie_ wrote: post #12
muhuk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will never be allowed to happen. A united middle east would be undesirable. The current state of chaos and poverty is ideal. Personally, I wouldn't want that to happen either.

'Not allowing it to happen' would probably be the most galvanizing thing the world could possibly do. Basically damned if we do, damned if we don't. That's why a new caliphate seems like a real possible outcome. Also a new Islamic empire would most likely ally with Russia and China. Already they veto action on anything middle east related in the UN.

You seem to think that the various factions in the Middle East, just because they share a common religion, actually like each other. Even their religion has a few divisions that really don't like each other. Really, I doubt that you'll see any sort of large unified Middle East. It is just too hard to get them to agree on anything.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#16

Post by [deleted] »

pixie_ wrote: post #12
muhuk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will never be allowed to happen. A united middle east would be undesirable. The current state of chaos and poverty is ideal. Personally, I wouldn't want that to happen either.

'Not allowing it to happen' would probably be the most galvanizing thing the world could possibly do. Basically damned if we do, damned if we don't. That's why a new caliphate seems like a real possible outcome. Also a new Islamic empire would most likely ally with Russia and China. Already they veto action on anything middle east related in the UN.

[deleted]

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#17

Post by fusiongyro »

pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

Bullshit. They've had a common enemy for sixty years and it hasn't enabled them to overcome their differences. Different nations are different. Turkey is completely unique. Look at their system of government, it's secular, and has been for years, and they got there on their own. The Arab Spring protesters were very mixed, but largely Islamist. These protesters are largely secular. Look at Iran. I'd say it's much more likely they secularize their government in the next ten years than any kind of substantial caliphate spring into existence.

Having a caliphate was one thing when you had one rich city-state dominating a vast poor expanse. It's a very different story when you have a dozen rich countries, each with their own tiny army, each with their own couple ethnicities, each one wanting to pronounce everything differently and quite unable to agree on who succeeded Mohammed.

It would be really convenient to be able to paint all our troubles with a single brush and a single color of paint, but the truth is much more complex and interesting.

Re: What is happening in İstanbul?

#20

Post by cpleppert »

pixie_ wrote: post #9

Pretty sure if Turkey falls we'll end up with a new Islamic caliphate in the next 10 years. Who doesn't see one sweeping over this shattered region. For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another. What we should really be afraid of is some kind of galvanizing leader or force to come out of this.

>> For 90% of its history (600 to 1900) the middle east has been under a single empire or another.

That is so totally wrong I don't even know where to begin. For starters the caliphate was only a political force until the emergence of the seljuk turks. The turkish empire was European focused and never controlled persia or arabia.

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