161–170 of 175 posts
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Agreed. Then some factory owners will build robots instead (as they're already doing due to wage rises in China) and wipe out any foreign competition along with jobs. It's for their own good, after all.
It is for their own good. Robots are inevitable, better to push them out now and start addressing what they mean for society than pretend they're never coming.
It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that accidents like this don't also happen in the U.S. (or other "first-world" countries). In the mid-to-late '90s I was working on a project that had a fatal accident in the Omaha NE area (fortunately I wasn't present to witness it). Another contractor was lacing new fiber-optic cable to the existing coaxial cable and realized they'd run the fiber over a safety ground about 7 poles…
> They knew there was a slight risk the ground wire would be hot once disconnected Is there some way you could measure that before touching it or messing with it? And then call in the power company if its properties are not what they are expected to be?
Disclaimer: I'm not a power engineer (optics, RF, embedded systems and software) but I understand the basic principles. Someone else can probably talk about how the earth ground is actually established (after every transformer I believe) with a lot more detail.
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> They knew there was a slight risk the ground wire would be hot once disconnected Is there some way you could measure that before touching it or messing with it? And then call in the power company if its properties are not what they are expected to be?
Only in a perfect world would there be zero current on a ground wire. The current can be measured by measuring the field around the wire. There are many manufacturers of clip on ammeters which make a loop around the wire and then measure The current or potential induced in the loop by the field resulting from the current in the ground wire. That video was truly horrible. Was that metal scaffolding? I am surprised tha…
The video was indeed terrible. I'm guessing the scaffolding was metal but that the wheels were rubber (it seemed as though the current was only going though the workers).
The headline is a lie. If you follow the link trail, you'll find that the workers were on a construction site for a municipal biogas facility. If this is the most disturbing thing Matheij has ever seen, then he clearly knows very little about workplace safety. Accidents of this sort happen on a daily basis in the developed world. Outsourcing is the key driver for workplace safety improvements in China. The worst work…
> The headline is a lie. Because you say so? > If you follow the link trail, you'll find that the workers were on a construction site for a municipal biogas facility. Thanks for pointing out the link. Link? Also, such a facility will be somewhere in the chain of production and it is a fairly good example of the way the typical workplace in China approaches safety: not. There are a few efforts underway to counteract t…
It's in the Youtube description.
Accidents of this type happen regularly in the developed world, most of them in exactly these circumstances - moving scaffolding or ladders without noticing overhead lines. They're extremely difficult to prevent, because you're relying on the vigilance of the worker. It's completely unrealistic to expect constant supervision of every worker who moves a ladder or a scaffold pole.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/wp-solutions/2007-155/pdfs/200...
I know you're outraged, but there's no magic wand for health and safety. China doesn't have a callous disregard for health and safety, they're developing much faster than we did. There's no magic wand and you can't fix things overnight. You can dole out all the hard hats and fluorescent vests you like, but there's no shortcut to developing a culture of safety. It took us many decades to develop that culture and we still have glaring failings in many industries.
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I'm inclined to agree with pavs. I've done some traveling and living abroad, and it seems that these many other countries are in an industrial revolution stage of development. For the USA that meant better working environments, hours, safety, and pay. Before these things were in place we had insufficient labor laws here too. The portion that I'm missing is that, here in the states our industrial revolution paid well…
"However, I think the OP being concerned about this is great, but you can't force change onto another culture nor should you" We can, however, stop buying products made in such dangerous factories, and make it clear why we are doing so. Why should we demand that factories in this country adhere to certain safety standards, then buy cheap goods from factories in other countries that do not adhere to the same standards…
Yes they need safety regulations, but that really does need to come from the Chinese workers. We should help them make those demands if they want but we shouldn't force it on them. I.E. Opening a site where workers can Chinese workers can complain about their working conditions (ratings) which then propagates those ratings to the products. We would use the product reference as a guide.
But to force that upon them, in my mind, is wrong. It's hard to find the line between empowerment and external control. This is an issue many Americans had when donating to Haiti. They'd try to give an American fix and it didn't work because that's not what Haitians wanted or needed.
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It's not misunderstanding. You link to an awful video, draw general conclusions on the account of one event, and your unsaid conclusion is that Chinese people disdain human lives. 100 years ago you'd have added infanticide. So, no, Chinese people are not heartless zombies workers, they cherish human life and had a full structured ethical system when Europe was Barbary, and they are taking themselves out of survival m…
Today the apartment complex I in which I live in Beijing sent some guys out to fix a water leak my landlord reported. There are two: one guy with a big rope attached to a safety harness he is wearing, the other guy holding the rope with one hand. The first guy opens the window, climbs through it onto the 1-foot ledge on the 16th floor (the window only opens about 30 degrees, so this is a little challenging). He caulk…
In fact the precaution principle might be a factor paralyzing European economy right now.
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It's not about "libertarian choice". It's about not being able to change all the world in an instant. Workplace safety in China looks to be increasing. Wages too. For that matter, the Chinese workforce is shrinking while Mexico has lower labor costs. Also this constant global coverage due to youtube or other media is improving things in China. Without the unprecedented awareness the internet affords us, I don't think…
Yes, work conditions in China are slowly and steadily improving. But somehow, whenever the concept of choice comes up, it's always about the privileged giving the oppressed a pep talk, claiming that whatever position society has put them in "it's really totally fine". "Safety is increasing" - would /you/ work at such a factory?
The US investing in Chinese manufacturing has and is increasing the quality of life (and safety) for the workers in China. This takes time, and there is nothing we can do to avoid that. If we were to go in and demand North American manufacturing salary and safety standards for the entire supply chain, you can bet their goods would cost more to produce than if we just did it here and we would therefore just make them here. That would destroy the Chinese economy and send everyone back into worse conditions than we currently have. Therefore I would argue that the result would be a net harm if we force conditions to rise too rapidly, rather a balance must be maintained.
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"We"? And no, working practice are not tremendously unsafe in China, even if they are less safe than in the west in some industries. Chinese people have a much deeper relation with mother nature than in the west in many regards, their art and culture and literature and gardens are a proof of that. They are extremely concerned with environmental issues, thanks.
A social interest in gardens and mother nature is one thing, but what about pollution regulations? The New York times suggests that there are significant problems with pollution in China: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/world/asia/as-chinas-envir... "China’s state leadership transition has taken place this month against an ominous backdrop. More than 16,000 dead pigs have been found floating in rivers that provide…
> government gets corporations under control
China has got its growths because government did (partially) lift their control over private interest. Narrow sighted people (including NYT) tend to forget it and spend a lot of energy lecturing China about government control and things like that.
Not to say that there are no problems in China. But i think it is nauseating to grab a hooror video on Youtube and draw conclusions, or to voice concerns about Chinese pollution with the underlining preconception that Chinese people are dirty subhumans who don't care a shit.