How to Negotiate a Job Offer • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#101

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, May 30, 2013, 7:12 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #57

GavinB wrote: post #14

The "Pre-Reqs" piece is not right. You really don't need to have another job offer or a current job to negotiate. A while ago I wrote up this script for how to negotiate a job offer with no leverage at all when you intend to accept it no matter what: http://bit.ly/1185CGm Most job offers come with leeway for negotiation, regardless of your situation. All you really have to do is ask.

>You really don't need to have another job offer or a current job to negotiate. No, but if I know that you don't have another option, I'm not going to be as willing to give up more. A known secondary option puts pressure (sometimes, tremendous) on your negotiating partner. The absence of such an option does not. That's what the article is saying.

Another, less obvious benefit of having another option: it makes them get their ass in gear. So many companies feel like they have an urgent need to hire, but start taking forever to get back to you throughout the process, whether it's scheduling interviews or drafting an offer letter.

When you get the chance to say "I do have one other offer that is expecting a response by $date, but I am really interested in this position, so I wanted to see if it was a good fit before committing to the other. Do you think that is enough time for us to meet?"

Suddenly, mountains start moving.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#102

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, May 30, 2013, 7:18 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #98

kelnos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, but if I know that you don't have another option, I'm not going to be as willing to give up more. That doesn't really make sense. The candidate has at least this much in their favor: 1. A recruiter has had probably 2-3 phone calls with them, a technical person (or two) has done a phone screen, and they've taken up the time of, say, 4-6 people for in-person interviews. The company has already spent a not-insigni…

The company has already spent a not-insignificant amount of time (aka money) evaluating this person, and losing them over a (reasonable) salary increase would be foolish. Any company worth anything has an a, b, and c candidate (plus, often the option to wait) already in their pocket. While what you say is true, the assumption that your demands are "reasonable" is one you simply cannot make. Only the other party can d…

> Any company worth anything has an a, b, and c candidate (plus, often the option to wait) already in their pocket. While what you say is true, the assumption that your demands are "reasonable" is one you simply cannot make. Only the other party can define that. The cost of hiring is not assigned to you, it is a sunk cost that the company will absorb regardless of who they hire. It's pretty insignificant to keep an already posted position open.

That hasn't been my experience (on both sides of the hiring table). From what I've seen, only 1 offer goes out at a time. Otherwise, both might say yes, and you can't retract it. Only if the offer doesn't work out does option b get an offer (if he's still looking by the time all of this is done).

For every day that a job goes unfilled, it's costing them lost market opportunity and delaying their launch.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#103

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, May 30, 2013, 7:43 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #3

As someone who has been in IT for over 20 years and makes multiples of the highest salary used as an example in the article, I can state that I agree with all the advice given. The post does a good job of walking the fine line between getting what you're worth and coming off like a conceited jerk. There are more advanced salary negotiating techniques and ways to get into positions to negotiate your salary but those t…

You make >$300k salary in IT? Please share your advice.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#104

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, May 30, 2013, 7:46 PM UTC

pan69 wrote: post #41

The article mentions a signing bonus. Does anyone have an idea on how common this this and in what type of situation asking for a signing bonus is appropriate and what some of the common numbers are in these cases?

I don't think they are exactly common, but they are not rare. I tend to see them at bigger companies.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#105

Post by eru » Fri, May 31, 2013, 2:20 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #100

eru wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you always want to provide your own numbers first. That's what they call `controlling the document' in the legal profession, and `anchoring' in Psychology.

It's more common advice to never name the first price. I'm no expert negotiator but personally I think this depends on the situation. In more than one case I've underestimated my worth and received more than I would have though I could get away with asking for. Once they name their price, I know it's their lower bound, so I'm comfortable asking for even more. I think negotiating a salary has different dynamics than n…

> It's more common advice to never name the first price.

Yes. But that doesn't make it useful. I recommend e.g. reading http://diplom.org/Zine/F1997R/Windsor/lawdip.html

> In more than one case I've underestimated my worth and received more than I would have though I could get away with asking for.

Of course the other rule is: Know what you can get away with.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#106

Post by davidguryn » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

victorhn wrote: post #4

I suck at this stage of the new job process, at my current job i took the first offer which was "decent" money , largely because i didn't have much options (This is like dating). My excitement about my new job and salary lasted about 3 months, from that point i feel like i am being underpaid, is it worth to try to renegotiate my salary when i have been only 3 months in a company? Otherwise how long should i wait to a…

I have been through this experience, and it is tough to ask for a raise within the first year. The best time to negotiate is when you receive the offer, after that, you may need to wait a little longer than three months.

Don't claim value; create value. Can you demonstrate how you are underpaid, in that you have data that show what other people in similar positions are making? You'll also need to clearly outline how you have added value to your employer. Simply stating you deserve a raise will not be as effective and showing them why and what you have done to deserve it.

In the meantime, look at ways that you could improve how your company operates. If you are bored, create projects for yourself. Your employer will love you for it in the long term and provide you with a strong recommendation in the event you want to get a new job. Creating value now will also improve how you communicate when interviewing for other jobs.