Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary? • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#361

Post by ramchip » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

DrJokepu wrote: post #154

benjaminwootton wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London cost of living isn't so bad. Public transport is cheap and abundant, competition keeps prices down for restaurants and shops, and there are a lot of free events to keep you busy. The main expense is in the accomodation, which most people in their 20s combat by sharing houses in undesirable areas. (This is a problem UK wide though as they have managed to keep our housing bubble inflated unlike in the US.) Londo…

Public transport in London is anything but cheap. It is simply the most expensive urban public transport system I know of in terms of cost of monthly passes (or travelcards). Currently a monthly travelcard in zones 1-2 is £116.80 ($177.30). In comparison, a similar monthly pass in New York costs $112, $74 in San Francisco, $167 in Tokyo, $84.50 in Paris, $99.95 in Berlin, $100 in Chicago, $67.96 in Melbourne and so o…

Not sure what these prices are based on, but in Tokyo a monthly pass for all of a zone doesn't even exist - you'd get a pass for a specific route from station A to station B only, with no buses and so on.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#362

Post by lucaspiller » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 2:32 PM UTC

dxm wrote: post #311

Started on £17.5k in Wales and was moved to the London office for £25k, after a year I got a new job for £35k, and a year later took a new job for the same money but for a much better company. At the same company, I've reduced my salary to £32k since the pension law came in, but I take home the same amount as I did at £35k (some loophole). I hate London, and the company I work for is now allowing me to work remotely…

I have a friend who decided to stay in the area he grew up in for a better quality of life (North Devon). He is 25, now earning £35k and looking to buy a second house. No way you would be able to do that in London :) Kudos and good luck!

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#363

Post by lucaspiller » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #106

Yhippa wrote: post #94

Wow, I am shocked at the low salaries. There go my fantasies of doing software development in London. From what I've read about there's no way I could afford rents there on that salary.

And yet, I can do a bootstrap startup and my girl is unemployed (just finished her PhD and now looking for an academic position) and we do alright on a combined salary around ~£1.1k per month take home. If you're fine living in Zone 2 or 3 ( the grey concentric circles on this map: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/oyster-rail-services-... ). Then rent in London: Shared house/apt = ~£650 per month, private apt =…

I lived in South Wimbledon (the not so nice part, but still better than surrounding areas - i.e. you won't get stabbed) paying £400 for a double bed in a shared house. It is zone 3, so 30 mins to get to zone 1 on the tube, but I liked it.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#364

Post by jamedjo » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

shadchnev wrote: post #259

Having read all comments, I'm somewhat lost. I was hired in London in 2008 on £37K, it was my first programming job after uni, I had clean resume. Today a competent beginner with a few web projects under his belt easily gets around £45K. I'm hiring developers for my startup – http://www.makersacademy.com – and I wish I had more applicants. I'm happy to pay £350-450/day for a decent Ruby dev and or around £60K permane…

Is it the number of applicants or the quality which is the issue?

Would it help if you targeted CS students by running web dev workshops? That way you could attract developers who haven't considered applying to a startup and might not otherwise teach themselves web development. Student salaries are also lower.

Maybe you could look further geographically too. We had an ItMegaMeet in Bristol yesterday which sponsor companies used for recruiting.

I too would be surprised at how little some CS students know about web development and testing-- if I hadn't sat through a web tech unit so outdated that those of us with some experience could easily have done a better job. I helped the lecturer improve the course for the next year, but think these kinds of things need a different and more collaborative teaching model.

Thing is though- some things are easier to train on the job than others. So while I would hire my peers, I'd personally see it as a bonus if they used TDD not a prerequisite.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#365

Post by walshemj » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:06 PM UTC

elemeno wrote: post #244

walshemj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is when compared to other professions a GP (family doctor) earns on average well over £120k very few devs with say 10 years experience earn any where near that.

GPs in the UK earn an average of £103k if they're a partner in a practice or £54k to £81k if they work for a primary care trust - that is if they work directly for the NHS unlike many GPs who are self employed but contract their services to the NHS but who don't work for the NHS. [1] They also have to go through a five or six year medical school and five years of post-graduate training along with profesional exams (M…

And would the average engineer earn any where near that given the same amount of professional development/work experiance. And professional engineers often have to have indemnity insurance.

I bet the average Ceng doesn't earn anywhere near 100k.

And your forgetting that consultants often have a private practice on the side from thier NHS gig.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#366

Post by lgeek » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:06 PM UTC

ThePawnBreak wrote: post #358

acchow wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this anecdotal or do you have data? If real, it's nice seeing the beginnings of programming jobs crossing arbitrary political lines.

I'm a Romanian student in Bucharest and tudorconstantin's claims seem on target. The average wage for an intern is 400 euros (based on what I hear from other students) and the starting salary after graduation is about 700 euros. Here are some internships with posted salary: http://4psa.stagiipebune.ro/stagii.html&id=1189&cate... http://adobe.stagiipebune.ro/stagii.html&id=1241&cat...

Are those internships and jobs aimed at relatively competent students/grads? I'm asking because those salaries would have been considered quite low back in 2008 before I've emigrated.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#367

Post by dschiptsov » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:17 PM UTC

akie wrote: post #306

dschiptsov wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more in "the old class system" (or the caste system) than just attending elite college. It is genes. You like it or not, breeding matters a lot. What all those companies buy is not grades, it is not even a particular phenotype, it is a few generations of fine breeding, well-educated parents and relatives, etc. So, most of those guys "with a sociology degree" worth it, you like it or not. It is just one of th…

First of all: genes? Do you seriously believe that? I'd like to see some citations for that, if you don't mind. I think you're farcically misrepresenting the nature vs nurture debate here. In general, people with well-off, well-educated parents tend to do better than people who have undereducated poor parents. If you ask me, that's an argument for making sure we have less poor parents and for making sure that more pe…

Well, the well-known formula is "Nature and Nurture" - we are what we are due to genes and environment. This is, of course, huge over-simplification, almost a meme, but it is correct one.

Of course, "genes" does not mean the destiny, even if preferences and abilities are "encoded" there. There are long and boring debate about role of genes and IQ score and the consensus is that "almost everything is inherited but without proper environment, training and fertilizing the potential could not be fully expressed".

Well-off, well-educated parents, in a few generations back, is what could be called the environment. And what it amounts for is not just self-esteem and developed, refined mind, but also non-verbal behavior, which, like looks (a signal of good genes) are much more powerful drive that people like to admit to themselves.

As for ideas of so-called equality, be it socialism or equality between men and women, these are just theories. In reality (at least what we could see in labs) genes are the vehicle of evolution process, which is all about inequality.

It is correct to say that these theories, being intellectually attractive, are in contradiction with the very process which made us. So, it is better to check ones premises.)

For example, people might like it or not, a good-looking person (due to genes) will receive much more attention from people in all his endeavors, be it studying or carer building, or simply having a good time. Too much attention could ruin, and it is well-known in the field of personality disorders.

Please, do not even mention that nonsense that what is considered good-looking varies from culture to culture, from age to age. Good looks are youth, health and lack of deformations ("average" face considered the most beautiful) or signs of good genes.

Actually, any modern psychology textbook treats those subjects is very clear.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#368

Post by mordae » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:21 PM UTC

shadchnev wrote: post #259

Having read all comments, I'm somewhat lost. I was hired in London in 2008 on £37K, it was my first programming job after uni, I had clean resume. Today a competent beginner with a few web projects under his belt easily gets around £45K. I'm hiring developers for my startup – http://www.makersacademy.com – and I wish I had more applicants. I'm happy to pay £350-450/day for a decent Ruby dev and or around £60K permane…

I live and work in Prague and recently our team have finally found a sponsor for our software project. I am very happy that in a month or two, together with full-time system administrator pay with maximum bonus from state research/education institution we work for I will finally be able to pay my rent and food at the same time.

We are looking at ~£13K each.

I am very competent in C, Python and do Racket for fun. Both other guys are competent in Python, one of them have some Android experience, both are competent in modern web stuff. One of the guys just learned PgPL/SQL in a week, on flu, because it was needed.

Do we even live on the same planet?

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#369

Post by polymatter » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:21 PM UTC

alexmorse wrote: post #132

A friend of mine built a pretty good tool for this sort of research and sharing long ago if any of you are interested: http://salaryscout.com/

site is throwing "Error establishing a database connection" on pretty much every page except the front page.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#370

Post by dschiptsov » Sun, Jun 02, 2013, 3:23 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #349

dschiptsov wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more in "the old class system" (or the caste system) than just attending elite college. It is genes. You like it or not, breeding matters a lot. What all those companies buy is not grades, it is not even a particular phenotype, it is a few generations of fine breeding, well-educated parents and relatives, etc. So, most of those guys "with a sociology degree" worth it, you like it or not. It is just one of th…

Is there any actual evidence to support this?

One could see hundreds actual evidences in any alpine slalom world cup, or US golf cup or a Paris fashion show.)