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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#131

Post by omni »

brownbat wrote: post #122

So many questions... How does a NIMBY protest turn into Tiananmen Square? Does someone in government actually say, "They don't want malls? THEN GIVE THEM TANKS!!!" Why would a government that has "sold out to corporations" restrict the sale of lipstick and alcohol?

> Why would a government that has "sold out to corporations" restrict the sale of lipstick and alcohol?

Governments are groups of people that are at least partially restrained by the wills and opinions of other, much larger groups of people. People are very complex. If you are expecting the government to have rules that it follows 100% of the time, you will be disappointed.

A rule such as restricting lipstick sales is something that is mostly inconsequential that the government can still point to and say "See, we don't just blindly do what megacorps tell us to!"

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#132

Post by justsee »

claudius wrote: post #8
antihero wrote: post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

> Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall.

No, it appears rampant corruption in the construction industry (with the perception it is privately benefiting the Turkish PM and his political party) led to a decision not 'in the name of the people'. [1]

> People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests.

If we assume the reporting so far is reasonably accurate, they are protesting against the erosion of democracy by an increasingly authoritarian PM and corrupted political party which he leads.

It is darkly ironic that you'd attempt to portray their efforts as anti-democratic.

[1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/01/erdogan-grip-tur...

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#133

Post by cdash »

mertd wrote: post #119
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not find a replica of the bridge posted. Perhaps it is a popular crossing that gets filled up whenever major events are happening?

No, it is a major highway. Pedestrian traffic is are not allowed. Getting on the bridge as a group of people is very rare and requires significant critical mass to pull off.

Like a major protest?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#134

Post by iaskwhy »

pionar wrote: post #120
iaskwhy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree RT is not the most credible source, that's why I went to the AI blog. Still, it's one of the few international tv channels broadcasting from Taksim Square, if not the only.

AI isn't exactly an impartial source either. That's not a news article, it's an editorial.

Can't say I understand your comment. RT published an article saying AI said something so I went to AI to verify if they really said it and they didn't. What's your point?

If the idea is talking about reliable sources then we will have a hard time finding one when even the NYT was able to justify a war with false data... Sure, noone's 100% reliable and that's why you check several sources. That's actually what I did on this thread, check my other comments with more sources.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#136

Post by officemonkey »

idoco wrote: post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

As a friend of mine once said "In Turkey we have free markets, not free speech."

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#138

Post by honzzz »

claudius wrote: post #8
antihero wrote: post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

> People protesting against that by blocking the construction process

I think this is serious misunderstanding of what is now going on in Turkey. The 'mall in park' thing was just a trigger. I understand that you are somehow comparing this to Stuttgart protests but from what I read about it I think this is totally different situation.

Example: I was born in a country occupied by Russians. And there were some protests (even violent) triggered by things like our hockey team beating Russian team at the Olympics. Of course that this had nothing to do with ice hockey and everything to do with the tension and unhappiness that builds up for years.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#139

Post by Steko »

Via wiki's list of turkish newspapers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Turkey):

http://www.zaman.com.tr/ Democratic, Islamic, Liberal ENGLISH: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/

http://www.posta.com.tr/ Populism

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/anasayfa/ Nationalism, Kemalist, Centre-Right ENGLISH: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/

http://www.sabah.com.tr/ Liberal Conservatism, Center-Right

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/ Nationalism, Kemalism, Secular

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/AnaSayfa/ Kemalist, Nationalist, Secular, Center-Left

http://www.haberturk.com/ Nationalism, Conservatism, Right-Wing

http://www.turkiyegazetesi.com/ Conservatism, Right-Wing

http://www.stargazete.com/ Liberal Conservatism, Center-Right

http://www.gazetevatan.com/root.asp Kemalist, Nationalist, Secular

http://www.bugun.com.tr/ Conservative-Democrat, Nationalism, Center-Right

http://www.takvim.com.tr/ Center-Right

http://www.aksam.com.tr/ Center-Left

http://yenisafak.com.tr Islamism, Conservatism, Right-Wing

edit: added some English links above. Also http://www.goodmorningturkey.com/

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#140

Post by jetblackio »

pknerd wrote: post #135

By the way, can anyone tell me how a Revolution or occupation anywhere in the world has any link with Hacking that the news featured on HN?

What? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Might want to edit it to make it clearer.

Anyway, I think you are wondering why this news is on Hackernews. I'd say it's because there are a lot of politically conscience people here, who care about what's going on in the world.

One point I think people miss is that the content of this site does not necessarily have to be related to tech (though usually is). I personally come here for the discussion that results from the submissions, and world news like this is important to me. And I'd like to be able to discuss the news/situation with other people of similar educations, vocations and mindsets.

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