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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#81
post #57
post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

The current Turkish government has been jailing journalists for years. Whilst the constitution makes the country ostensibly secular, the AKP has been slowly turning it into an Islamist state. I assumed that's what was fundamentally behind the protests, but maybe it's just another anti-corporate thing.

You assume correct, this protests are no longer really about a shopping mall or a park. There was a small protest to that and the reaction to it has set in motion a new protest that has been bubbling under the service for a long time now.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#82
Can someone perhaps comment on the alleged use of agent orange? [1] From my limited knowledge of chemical weapons ( in lack of a better word), it is an deforestation chemical, and has no direct use for riot control. So currently my take is, that this is a rumor, since its use would better fit into the narrative than into a plausible police strategy.

[1] for example: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_conf...

(from saurik's comment)

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#83
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment merits an explanation.

It's a protest against a govt that is seen to be strongly pro-islam and authoritarian. The automatic reaction from some muslims will be that it is US-sponsored. Given the US's long track record of sponsoring coups and pro-western/secular movements, you can't really blame them.

Hm, I see. Sort of an ironic assumption given the protest started with the planned replacement of a park with a shopping mall.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#84

One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb) This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more seriou…

It's heartbreaking when I see a comment like this voted up to the top. Are you saying anything new here? Is there anything in your remarks that is insightful? No.

This kind of comment appears in practically Every. Single. news discussion. Can't we just make a blanket statement like this as a sticky, and put it at the top of each story? A kind of brief disclaimer or IANAL?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#85
There are a number of defended buildings & complexes near Taksim. Consulates galore; a military hospital on Inonu Caddessi that has a bunch of sandbagged positions on it, along w/ more conventional guardposts; etc. And there's a military museum on the edge of the park, right next to where dozens of cats happily live.

Any of those places reporting troubles? Or is it all in the streets and park itself?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#87
post #82

Can someone perhaps comment on the alleged use of agent orange? [1] From my limited knowledge of chemical weapons ( in lack of a better word), it is an deforestation chemical, and has no direct use for riot control. So currently my take is, that this is a rumor, since its use would better fit into the narrative than into a plausible police strategy. [1] for example: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/i…

I don't think it is aimed at at the protestors, but it is a chemical usable to attack trees and they are in a park.

It might very well be sort of 'we are going to kill this park one way or the other' type of situation. Once all the trees are dead, they could properly develop the park with relatively few protests.

It is insane, of course, but it seems that some governments are prepared to do absolutely anything to their citizens so long as they think they can get away with it and while they usually can get away with it they also have no understanding that getting away with these kinds of things are like a cliff-drop: you can go closer and closer to the edge and then you go one step too far and the entire thing unravels.

Usually at this point the governments try to oppress them a little more, rather than back away, and that is when the real explosion happens.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#88
post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

Turkey actually is a successful example of a democratic state where Islam is the religion of the vast majority, albeit it is not a Muslim state, as the constitution is religion-agnostic; nowhere in it exists a phrase which even implies that the state has an official religion. Current government follows a conservative policy and has been elected with roughly 49% of votes. This eventually gave them power and resources to work in an autocratical manner. They have also been able to enforce censorship and direct the media companies in the way they want. Turkish parliament has a total count of 550 members and 327 of these are members of AKP, which let's them legislate proposals even in situations where there is no support from the opposition (although they can't in some cases where the required fraction of parliamentarian votes are more that 50%, which is usually demanded by the constitution for some fundamental stuff, like editing the constitution text itself). Added the fact that the president is also descendant from this party, they apparently have a humongous authority, originating from a, so to speak bug in election system: A party with less than 10% vote rate can not have it's members in the parliament, which eventually let them occupy more that 50% of the 550 quota of the number of parliamentarians.

The next elections will be held on 2015, at which I expect that the votes are going to be distributed even among the three major parties, where two of these are CHP and MHP, which are defined to be social-democrat-left and nationalist-concervative-right (with no apparent tendency towards theocratic ideals) respectively. AKP will probably be in the parliament, albeit lack the dominion present today.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#89

Im confused by the use of the occupy lingo. Is occupy just a meme now for any protest?

Technically, physical presence is what matters. That's why you don't only send bombing planes but also land forces to take over the control.

It's not a meme. As long as the people are protesting there, the idiots in the government can't claim they have no problem.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#90

The tearing down of trees for commercial and residential areas is happening here too. It's called urban sprawl. Land developers wipe out natural habitats like forests and leave sterile, artificial suburbs and plazas in its stead. Most citizens never hear about it until it's too late because it's not easy to find out about the latest zonings. Trying to have a say in the process? Well, that's a whole new level of obfus…

You mean they're tearing down trees for new homes and jobs?

The horror!

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