> "In many ways we are complicit, we vote ‘cheap’ every time > we can (I’m no exception) and if we can externalize the > problems in such a way that we can pretend they don’t > exist then we all sleep just fine at night." Correct, but an extra problem is: i doubt that my extra money will go to those workers when i 'vote expensive'. Most of the time the money just goes into profits for the owners or maybe into an expa…
Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
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Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#22I am in Bangladesh, while I agree that a lot can be done to improve working conditions and worker safety, and in some cases worker's payment too. But its not nearly as bad as people make it (esp the ones who have never lived in such circumstances or in those countries). They may not get paid the same salary according to western standard, but the worker are doing (for the most part) pretty fine with the amount of money they are making. As a matter of fact, most of them have never seen so much money in their life, and most of the garments workers (mostly women) who without garments work would either be house wife, or beggars or do seasonal farming work 2-3 months a year with 1/10th of the pay, if at all (usually they get paid by farmed goods like rice, instead of money).
You have to understand, you can live a very good life with very little money in this part of the world, as far as the living standard of the local economy is concerned, the pay is not bad at all (there are few exception where garments owners take advantage of workers, but its not the norm). Garments industry alone single handedly have improved countless people's life and directly or indirectly have saved many people's life too.
To give you an example, we live in a pretty well off part of the city in dhaka, a family of 6 with 2 maids and 2 drivers (thats how the local culture works). Our monthly grocery shopping cost rarely goes over 500-600 dollars. And we eat pretty good too, even compare to my 12 year stay in NY. For a single person my monthly grocery bill could easily go to 400-500 dollars in NY, and I used to be fairly frugal. So I think a perspective is necessary when talking about wages in this part of the world.
This obviously comes at a cost sometimes, but honestly I don't think any sane person believes the alternative (not having enough jobs, however underpaid they are) would have been better. Every, so called developed countries, has come to where they are on the back of cheap labors and poor worker's right and poor working conditions. That doesn't make it right, but thats pretty much how it works.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#23It really is in the power of the consumer to force companies to change. The heads of corporations are required and expected to be seeking out the highest possible returns for their investors. If their competitors use foreign labor with very cheap standards then that company is at a disadvantage in the marketplace. Only when consumers take into account the working conditions of the laborers does the marketplace change…
How would one go about convincing the consumer to change? That is the hard question.
There are already various organisations out there who campaign to make people aware of these conditions, so it's unlikely that people are totally ignorant.
Yet these don't seem to have affected widespread change in spending habits, I guess because people in the west have their own struggles and it is hard to say no to cheap. So this makes it easy to dismiss such campaigns as "leftist commie crap".
It also requires options, for example if I wanted to buy a smartphone that was free from bad labour conditions right through the supply change, how would I go about that?
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#24Low safety standards may contribute to the low price of goods produced in China, but the main reason is that the Chinese government deliberately keeps the value of the yuan low against the dollar.
There must be some long term economic repercussion for trying to manipulate the price of your currency?
It might present an issue if they wanted to buy a lot of US made weapons for example, but China is big enough that it largely does not need America.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#25This post (like many others) completely ignores the fact that these people choose to work in this environment. Statistics show that factory / industrial workers in China are doing better than those who stay in rural jobs. Human development indicators in China have constantly risen since the 1980's [1] and the economy is booming [2]. These sweatshops are horrific to our standards, but to their standards, these are gre…
...and there we go, the proverbial, libertarian "choice".
Also this constant global coverage due to youtube or other media is improving things in China. Without the unprecedented awareness the internet affords us, I don't think China would have done more to address these issues
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#26Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#27Disregard for human life in the People's Republics (not just China) precedes cheap stuff from Asia by decades.
It's actually the same disregard for human life that could be seen in the not so distant past in Europe or America. But youtube wasn't around back then.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#28It doesn't happen anymore because the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore. Well, there is one thing the US manufactures - energy. Not directly, but they get all the economic benefit for it.
When you pull a barrel of oil out of the ground, you've created wealth where there was none before. It is not a zero sum game. When you charge dollars for that barrel, you give those dollars value in the global energy market. It does not matter who 'owns' the oil, even another country, as long as it's sold in dollars, the US gets the benefit.
This is why stuff from China is so cheap. The only thing a dollar is good for on the global market is energy, but the dollar has a near monopoly on it. The US doesn't have to do any of the work when they are the ones putting the gas in the gas tank. The rest of the world makes the engine go off of that gas.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#29One of the issue that comes up with this type of discussion about low pay to workers on developing worlds like China, India, Bangladesh (recently you might have heard some news about it in the media). I am in Bangladesh, while I agree that a lot can be done to improve working conditions and worker safety, and in some cases worker's payment too. But its not nearly as bad as people make it (esp the ones who have never…
To ensure the safety of its citizens, it is a government's responsibility to strive to prevent work from being unnecessarily risky. It would be good if this could be orchestrated at a higher level than a national one, otherwise companies will enter a race to the bottom by moving their factories to the least regulated locations.
Re: Why Stuff From China Is So Cheap
#30Is there something wrong with me if even after reading this I'd still rather pay less for things and live in ignorant bliss?