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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#51

Post by nsns »

claudius wrote: post #19
idoco wrote: post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

There's that extremely influential one, whose currency states "in god we trust".

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#53

Post by claudius »

gcb0 wrote: post #48
claudius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have absolutely no problems with people protesting, I have a problem with ‘protesters’ forcing their opinion on the rest by use of passive (standing in front of a bulldozer) or active (undermining a railroad track carrying nuclear waste containers) violence. And yes, if ACTA protests had cut other people’s telecom lines to the US or some such thing, I would have called them anti-democratic, too. To me, a decent soc…

Spoken like a true majority. my bet of the little i worked on politics is that someone have campaign money, got the park land in return. I highly doubt there was much calls for discussion on the mater. This happened in Germany some time ago. The plebiscity for demolishing the park was voted against twice, then they came up with a third voting in the middle of a holiday, with 8h of warning or something similar. When t…

> This happened in Germany some time ago.

I don’t know to which event exactly you’re referring, but I can assure you that

> 8h of warning or something similar.

this is most certainly false. Could you elaborate a bit?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#54

Post by nsns »

ctdonath wrote: post #44
markdown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's confusing about it? They were calling for protestors to "occupy" the park to prevent it being bulldozed. Or at least that's how it started.

What's confusing is: in the USA, the term "occupy" has been taken as a practical trademark for a series of organized political protests. Look up "Occupy Wall Street" as the first and primary instance.

The name's very important as a link to the fight against neo-liberal capitalism, these protests are not just about state power.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#55

Post by mseebach »

markdown wrote: post #47
saejox wrote: post #37

Many local shops are looted by the protestors. Cars turned, stones thrown etc... So much for peaceful a protest. Mayoral election is less than a year away. Protest with your votes, not your fists.

It didn't start that way. It started peacefully. The government escalated the situation when they tear-gassed peaceful protestors. Once the government starts attacking its people, all bets are off... emotion will trump reason and bad shit happens, often to innocent bystanders or property in the vicinity.

No, this is a coward's excuse.

The police "attacking" is NOT a free pass to turn cars, throw stones or loot shops. You are always ultimately responsible for you own actions, and you're also responsible for being associated with bad actions if you stand by quietly when they are going on.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#56

Post by markdown »

ctdonath wrote: post #44
markdown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's confusing about it? They were calling for protestors to "occupy" the park to prevent it being bulldozed. Or at least that's how it started.

What's confusing is: in the USA, the term "occupy" has been taken as a practical trademark for a series of organized political protests. Look up "Occupy Wall Street" as the first and primary instance.

Hard to ignore the stereotype of the American who knows little of what happens beyond their borders :(

The Occupy Movement was a global one, with protests in over 80 countries. It started there, but it wasn't just a Wall St. thing.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#57

Post by tome »

idoco wrote: post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

The current Turkish government has been jailing journalists for years.

Whilst the constitution makes the country ostensibly secular, the AKP has been slowly turning it into an Islamist state. I assumed that's what was fundamentally behind the protests, but maybe it's just another anti-corporate thing.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#59

Post by galactus »

claudius wrote: post #8
antihero wrote: post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

I personally find thousands of people trying to defend a public park much more democratic than business lobby groups with unlimited resources influencing the policy makers.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#60

Post by cdooh »

Aljezera has had this story in their line-up for a couple f days now, not sure what they said about it because I wasn't overly concerned. Nothing on BBC though. So atleast one international news organisation is getting the word out.
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