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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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41–50 of 519 posts

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#41

One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb) This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more seriou…

Sure but some things are quite easily researchable online. You doubt that there is a mall in every neighbourhood, but a quick look on Google Maps: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&...

And yup, there are a phenomenal number of shopping malls, some only a couple of hundred meters from another.

I did spot check quite a few, looked at a few of the websites, and they are all multi-level, large shopping malls.

In fact this one is a mere 300m from Gezi Park: http://www.demirorenistiklal.com/

The great thing about the internet is that it is possible to get a sense of whether a claim is true or not very swiftly.

On the one fact you doubt and then use as an example to undermine the rest of the argument, a quick search verifies that claim. (Should you revisit the doubt you extended to the rest of the argument in light of some evidence to the claims that you used to undermine it?)

Of course there is emotion in there too (the government selling the nation to corporations), but we're mostly rational and will spot that surely.

The fundamental question is whether or not the reports in general speak of a true event, and overwhelmingly they do appear so. The level of consistency in the very many reports and sources is too much to be attributable and dismissed as any individual being emotional... of course they are emotional; some of their friends, family and fellow citizens are dead, others are in hospital or jail.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#44

Im confused by the use of the occupy lingo. Is occupy just a meme now for any protest?

What's confusing about it? They were calling for protestors to "occupy" the park to prevent it being bulldozed. Or at least that's how it started.

What's confusing is: in the USA, the term "occupy" has been taken as a practical trademark for a series of organized political protests. Look up "Occupy Wall Street" as the first and primary instance.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#45
post #17

I recommend - http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/ What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

Turkey isn't officially a Muslim state, it's Muslim by vast majority. It's starting to become effectively religious.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's confusing about it? They were calling for protestors to "occupy" the park to prevent it being bulldozed. Or at least that's how it started.

What's confusing is: in the USA, the term "occupy" has been taken as a practical trademark for a series of organized political protests. Look up "Occupy Wall Street" as the first and primary instance.

Still, AFAIR it started as an Internet thing, not entirely unrelated to 4chan. It was a meme at its birth, it has spreaded this way through the US, and now - like all internet memes - it is evolving.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#47
post #37

Many local shops are looted by the protestors. Cars turned, stones thrown etc... So much for peaceful a protest. Mayoral election is less than a year away. Protest with your votes, not your fists.

It didn't start that way. It started peacefully. The government escalated the situation when they tear-gassed peaceful protestors.

Once the government starts attacking its people, all bets are off... emotion will trump reason and bad shit happens, often to innocent bystanders or property in the vicinity.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. how so? democracy is not limited to counting votes and stfu until the next election. it's not like authorities haven't been removed from office before and decisions haven't been changed due to public disapproval. getting into…

I have absolutely no problems with people protesting, I have a problem with ‘protesters’ forcing their opinion on the rest by use of passive (standing in front of a bulldozer) or active (undermining a railroad track carrying nuclear waste containers) violence. And yes, if ACTA protests had cut other people’s telecom lines to the US or some such thing, I would have called them anti-democratic, too. To me, a decent soc…

Spoken like a true majority.

my bet of the little i worked on politics is that someone have campaign money, got the park land in return. I highly doubt there was much calls for discussion on the mater.

This happened in Germany some time ago. The plebiscity for demolishing the park was voted against twice, then they came up with a third voting in the middle of a holiday, with 8h of warning or something similar. When the bulldozers came to the park people were still believing they were there illegally because the permit was not voted for.

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