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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#21
One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it

For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb)

This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more serious accounts of police aggression, or the simplifed context of things like "The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government". As another commenter has pointed out, even photos can end up being from unrelated events.

This is not to say that this person's perspective is not extremely important, or that the Turkish state is not committing indefensible acts of aggression. It's just harder for outsiders to piece together a full and accurate picture of what is happening. Fortunately, multiple individual perspectives can help corroborate and enhance the picture to quite a degree.

Edit: Certainly media has biases too, although there are at least in theory standards for verifying reported facts, and the bias is (often) more about what they choose not report or what context is not given.

Edit: good points by buro as well. This account and others may well be very reliable, I'm more speaking from experience with past events that were reported in similar ways where key important facts turned out to be wrong or missing. (I know, that happens sometimes in traditional media too)

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#22

One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb) This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more seriou…

> One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it.

This is true for well-reported or over-reported events too. It's always an individual who reporting things, and thus the process of reporting itself involuntarily bakes in the opinion or ideology of the agent reporting the issue. It's up to us to take whatever we'd want to as credible.

Also in the context of Internet it is more likely to be the absolute truth, after Streisand effect and everything else is done with.

My assumptions in situations like this: No smoke without fire.

Just did a small search on Youtube and found out that reports of civilians been crushed under Panzers is TRUE [1]. And now the discussion on testing credibility and stripping out emotions from reporting standards sounds bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H...

[Edits: Added a link to a video of individual being crushed under a anti-riot Panzer vehicle. Not very graphic, but serious.]

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#23
post #8
post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

While I understand your point, and can agree in part I don't think it applies here. Reading what I've read today its not about single incidents, its about continuous incidents by a government that doesn't resonate with the people. And infact what is considered a growing fascist dictatorship in guise of a government that is routinely commented on for its human rights abuses.

I'd bet that the reason this has grown so quickly doesn't have much to do with individual gripes but that lack of trust and a feeling of disenfranchisement from that government. Compounded with rumours that government they don't have faith in could very well be going to war against a country with stock piles of nerve gas capable of hitting major settlements. Offering the crowds some security within themselves that the government is no longer emanating.

Ask yourself in that scenario, with the risk of sarin gas hitting your home, families home, government cold and distant,would you also go protest? I know I would.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#24

One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb) This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more seriou…

that's true but big media biases are sometimes a bigger issue. on the web, the truth is 10mins and few clicks away.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#25
post #8
post #4

This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the least important thing, it should never trump people's well-being or the environment.

Yet a democratically-elected government made a decision in the name of the people to replace this park with a shopping mall. People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests. This is a general problem I have with such active counter-protests, be they to stop a station from bei…

> People protesting against that by blocking the construction process (i.e. stand in front of bulldozers etc.) are effectively overturning democracy in order to protect their personal interests.

how so? democracy is not limited to counting votes and stfu until the next election. it's not like authorities haven't been removed from office before and decisions haven't been changed due to public disapproval. getting into office is not a free pass for half a decade. acta protests were anti-democratic too?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#26
Similar thing happened in Yerevan, Armenia last year, but in a smaller scale. Group of people protected a park from construction of boutiques. It took around 2 months and the government finally gave up. There is a wikipedia article covering the story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashtots_Park_Movement

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#27
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment merits an explanation.

Some people find it deeply unsettling that someone could hold different political views sincerely. They cope with it by assuming the others are compensated in some form for their abnormal behavior. When I protested in my homeland I heard accusations of being paid to do this, even the price was specified ($20). Twenty bucks to go into a harsh cold night to be assaulted by police and possibly imprisoned on terrorism ch…

Strange kneejerk reaction since the commenter is from Pakistan. If he has some actual reason to believe this I'd like to hear it for discussion's sake.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#28
@Brown_Moses (https://twitter.com/brown_moses) is one of the best people to follow on these subjects.

Eliot is an interesting example of one a single well-connected individual can accomplish in the digital age: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-brown-moses-blog/x/255....

His feed is a bit of a firehose feed, so I recommend you only follow him, whenever you need to immerse yourself in an ongoing story.

The things going on in Turkey are so insane, they have to be seen to be believed.

EDIT: His YouTube playlist with videos of the clashes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvUktDH-OBM&list=PLPC0Ude....

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#30
post #3

Another explanation, with more detail "on the ground": http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_conf...

and others on quora, http://www.quora.com/Istanbul/What-is-happening-at-Gezi-Park...

http://www.quora.com/Istanbul/What-is-happening-at-Gezi-Park...

Append "?share=1", and the dumbass registration wall goes away.

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