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Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

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71–80 of 420 posts

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#71
post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

That tends to be the case mostly everywhere in Europe. For that matter, most places in the world outside the US (and Silicon Valley) tend not to pay software engineers very competitively. I am from a fairly small central European country and programmers there barely make more than other professions; the salaries often amount to the national average.

But competitively is the word. They can attract software engineers at those low wages, therefore they are competitive.

This seems strange to me, as it takes a few years for someone to get good at software (the supply is constricted), and where I've been involved in recruitment, finding good people is difficult.

It's also interesting to see that people get paid so much more in finance, or at American companies. That is, a finance house could probably hire any good 5+ year C++ developer at the 'normal C++ developer' rate of 30k, and get good results. But they choose to pay 50K for a 'finance C++ developer', whether he was earning 30K last week or not.

That says to me that pay is not set by supply by labor supply and demand but something else. That is, you don't get rich by having rare skills that make people money, you get them by knowing which industries pay over the odds for labor. I think that's a good thing to realize if you want to be comfortable.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#72
post #64

I also see a lot of contracts around 400GBP a day in London for front end folks, thats around the 100K mark per year.

As a contractor you can spend a lot of time just marketing yourself, invoicing, etc. I'd imagine this is more like 50k per year in practice.

I'm calling BS on this, being a contractor. I spend around 10 mins a week invoicing. Nearly no time "marketing myself".

I DO spending a bit of time saying "no, I have a contract" to recruiters tho.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#73
post #48
post #17

As someone debating whether to do a Mathematics vs Computer Science vs Joint Honours, I'd really like to hear from graduates what worked out for them. - As a developer, how often are skills from CompSci degree applied on the job? - What do you wish you knew about the job market as an undergrad? - How much part did the prestige of your university play in your current salary?

Choosing a university degree to maximise your salary is a counter productive waste of opportunity. Become a generalist where command line foo is your super power, not your day job. People hire to get stuff done. They have zero interest in your qualifications. They have every interest in your github repos. One cool project trumps your degree. Employment offers plenty of scope to increase your salary. What it doesn't o…

>People hire to get stuff done. They have zero interest in your qualifications.

This seems to be a massive oversimplification. For a recent example, note how Yahoo is changing their recruiting to favour applicants that have a degree from a "prestigious" university.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#74
post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

It's the legacy of the old class system rearing its ugly head. No matter how well educated, and from what prestigious colleges, (software) engineering is blue-collar work and will never be as well paid as the "graduate management fast-track" type with a sociology degree from a "red brick".

Finance isn't highly paid for software work, it's fairly paid, by world standards, only because they contrary to popular belief, don't have any class hangups there and are comfortable with the notion of playing in a free market.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#75
post #68
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is completely different, she is employed either hourly- a maximum of 35 hours/week- or employed daily, ie. 218 days a year (for starters). EDIT: @nawitus: Sorry but your data is totally useless for this purpose. 1) it's the whole economy, not just programmers and 2) it includes part time workers! To imply that full-time programmers in London are working on average less than a 40 hour week is so far from realit…

The average hours worked in France is 1500, UK 1600 and USA 1800[1]. Therefore if you factor in hours worked, a developer in France should be paid 83% of average salary in America and 94% of average salary in the United Kingdom. This of course assumes that everything else is equal (which is untrue). A 30k salary in UK should translate into 28k salary in France when you factor in the number of hours worked. We should…

> The average hours worked in France is 1500, UK 1600 and USA 1800[1]. Therefore if you factor in hours worked, a developer in France should be paid 83% of average salary in America and 94% of average salary in the United Kingdom. This of course assumes that everything else is equal (which is untrue).

Notably, the longer hours worked in the US compared to Europe comes at the expense of less per-hour productivity in most studies I've seen, though not enough to result in less per-worker productivity. If that's true within Europe as well, the value of the time worked would be closer than the number of hours would suggest.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#76
post #54
post #51

is £50k enough to live in London on your own? (i.e. a one br flat)

No.

Bollocks. My gf and I are currently living off of my 40k since she's unemployed. In zone 2. It's totally doable and you'll have money to spare if you're alone with that kind of salary.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#77

Started on 30k progressed to 60k in London. People who stay in one place for more than 1-2 years without decent raises do a bad favour to everyone except for employers. Do move around and get what you deserve along with varied experience! Companies do shell out on contractors when there is a need and can keep them for years. I think it is some sort of misrepresentation that leads people to think that it is OK to pay…

Is there a point when moving around too much is starting to look bad on your resume?

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#78
post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

That tends to be the case mostly everywhere in Europe. For that matter, most places in the world outside the US (and Silicon Valley) tend not to pay software engineers very competitively. I am from a fairly small central European country and programmers there barely make more than other professions; the salaries often amount to the national average.

I'm also from Europe and in our country it's the contrary, one of the companies was few years ago advertising that they give developers salaries that are at least two country average. And that wasn't even in the capital (but a 2nd largest city). Here I think we are one of the best paid non-management people (apart from doctors/lawyers)

Edit: Forgot to mention the country - Poland

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#79
post #44
post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

If you think that's bad paid, come to the wonderful Spain. Graduates start with <= 18K€...

Or just cross the border to Portugal and have them for even less. The difference between even similar countries is huge.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived comfortably in zone 2 on £40k a year. I was paying £250 a week rent for a one bedroom flat in a complex with gym + pool in zone 2. Rent prices are a little higher than they were two years ago now though!

Prices are generally higher now. How much were you spending on commute?

It was approximately £20 a week.

In the summer I used to walk which took around 40 minutes so I spent a little less.

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