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Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

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Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#211

Post by ceras »

tharshan09 wrote: post #174
dmoy wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer this question you pose: >I know the term Web Developer has become a pretty broad term nowadays and maybe I am kidding myself when I think about a job at google or other SV or SF company, but what do they expect in terms of experience from a graduate? If you're talking about being a fresh graduate, the answer is that "Google or other SV company" will typically require zilch in the way of experience. Google,…

> If you're talking about being a fresh graduate, the answer is that "Google or other SV company" will typically require zilch in the way of experience. Google, et al will have separate job postings for "recent graduates". The requirements are pretty bare. The requirements never seem to reflect what you are tested on in an actual interview in one of those companies, as evidence of that blog post. However, yea in term…

It's not an actual year. You can get a full time offer with only one summer internship (3 months experience) under your belt and nothing else.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#212

Post by ceras »

objclxt wrote: post #156
tharshan09 wrote: post #148

Holy crap. I am student in the UK, recently did a internship at a fairly well known company. Got paid £16k for that year. If I were to get a full time job, it would be around ~30k a year. These figures are insane, people have told me in person this is what the figures are really like in SF but wow. I think applying for a couple of jobs in SF etc just for kicks will be one of goals when I finish uni. I know the term W…

> It would be great to talk to someone who has first hand experience with this I'll give it a go! A few things you should be aware of to put what you're saying in context. Firstly, the cost of living in SF is incredibly high. Slightly higher than London, if you can believe it (that's not just my opinion - I was chatting to about half a dozen engineers who had been rebased from SF to London yesterday and they all agre…

I would also add a 4th point that the lifestyle in the bay area is very different. I find it far higher in cities like London than in the Silicon Valley -- this is of course very subjective, but it closely mirrors the opinions of those who graduated with me. The closest city to London here is SF (which pales in comparison IMHO), and living there may require a very lengthy commute unless your company is actually in the city.

Of course, if you love nature, the bay area has its perks :) but be ready to spend a lot of time in a car.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#213

Post by sliverstorm »

signifiers wrote: post #183
sliverstorm wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article just recently, average SF house price just hit $1M

I hear this argument all the time, but let's get real. A million dollars in Berkeley isn't exactly a dump: http://www.ziprealty.com/property/6905-NORFOLK-RD-BERKELEY-C... this isn't too shabby either: http://www.ziprealty.com/property/42-MAIN-ST-SAN-QUENTIN-CA-... Now, I'll grant you, Palo Alto and San Mateo have a fair number of unexceptional ranch homes in this region, but it's bullshit to claim that you have to sp…

1) The article is talking about SF specifically, not Bay Area.

2) Of course you don't have to spend a million dollars to buy a place in SF if the median price is one million. Half the houses for sale obviously cost less than one million.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#214

Post by jon_dahl »

pdog wrote: post #154
mattj wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can't afford to pay a market salary, you should be getting at least 0.5% (and probably more like 1%). Still not life changing at 40mm with no dilution (200-400k), but a little more meaningful.

How many startup employees (not founders or investors) are getting even 0.5-1% effective equity?

If you're a non-junior engineer, and one of the first ~10 employees, this is fairly common. At least at the point of issuance; 2-3 VC rounds reduces the percentage (but increases the value, at least in theory).

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#215

Post by adventureloop »

rcush wrote: post #149
tharshan09 wrote: post #148

Holy crap. I am student in the UK, recently did a internship at a fairly well known company. Got paid £16k for that year. If I were to get a full time job, it would be around ~30k a year. These figures are insane, people have told me in person this is what the figures are really like in SF but wow. I think applying for a couple of jobs in SF etc just for kicks will be one of goals when I finish uni. I know the term W…

Graduate software engineer jobs in the UK hit £30,000 at the very top end. From the experience of friends in the industry, £24,000-26,000 seems more realistic.

From my experience(graduated last year) the range people from my class took was 16-32k.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#216

Post by dredmorbius »

lostlogin wrote: post #164
mistermumble wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can draw those conclusions: if you move here you can expect to double your current salary. Not covered by the poll is the fact that your living expenses will likely more than double, especially if you have to use a car to get to your job. Your vacation time will be cut in half. Health care expenses may rise. Bottom line is be prepared for some decline in your current standard of living. At the same time,…

Health care costs may rise? Where is more expensive than the US? I'm not being facetious as you may have something in mind - what situation do you imagine where it would get cheaper by moving to the US?

If you don't have to make use of your health care, then the primary cost would be increased healthcare premiums. Which are largely borne by the employer. So, while the actual expense would be higher, it's also rolled into (and already accounted for) by your increased salary.

Now, if you require treatment and have come from a more civilized place (e.g., much of the rest of the civilized world), you're in for, shall we say, a real treat.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#217

Post by mratzloff »

zerr wrote: post #117
sliverstorm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: 90% of people think they are smarter than average. Inference: 90% of engineers probably think they are smarter than average engineers

Not necessary. Engineers are usually smarter to not to think that way.

> Not necessary. Engineers are usually smarter to not to think that way.

I've known too many arrogant engineers to believe this is true.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#218

Post by gniv »

lefthander2 wrote: post #29
lefthander wrote: post #12

It seems silly to ignore stock and bonuses. My base salary is only ~$150k, but with stock and bonuses I'll make over $260k this year (Google). Would this compare with a job that also gives a $150k salary but nothing else?

My base salary is $220k; this year my bonus plus equity will be around $200k, so my total compensation will be over $400k. I've been out for a number of years, and the bonus plus stock is performance based, and of course the value of the stock compensation may change depending on the future direction of Google stock --- it's climbed very nicely since the beginning of the year! The main point is that ignoring the stoc…

For those wondering, that's pretty typical for a staff engineer at Google (ie, about four promotions or 6+ years from fresh grad).

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#219

Post by dredmorbius »

lefthander wrote: post #12

It seems silly to ignore stock and bonuses. My base salary is only ~$150k, but with stock and bonuses I'll make over $260k this year (Google). Would this compare with a job that also gives a $150k salary but nothing else?

Bonuses, and especially stock or option grants, can be difficult to reasonably evaluate. If you're at a large company, forsee staying there through your vesting period, and the stock value is reasonably stable, it's rather more a sure thing.

Being an early/mid stage hire at a startup with a high probability for failure, transition, or dramatic restructuring may well make both bonus and options grant promises little more than wallpaper.

And for a typical young engineer starting out with little experience in either negotiating such terms or understanding how they work and the associated probabilities, making a rational and accurate assessment is at best difficult.

So: no, they're not something you'd completely ignore, but (as with other forms of indirect payment, compensation, revenue, etc.) they make determining fair market price rather more difficult.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in the Bay Area, what's your annual salary?

#220

Post by T-hawk »

skrebbel wrote: post #132
kevinpet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had absolutely no idea for what kind of salaries people got around here, then this data would be useful. Is it $25k or $250k? This can answer that question. But what people are really interested in is "is $125k high or low" and this data is useless for answering that question. It is worse than useless because it may lead you to believe something that isn't true and think you have a valid reason for believing i…

This. Now, I don't actually understand statistics at all, so please correct me if I'm missing something, but as a European I find this poll pretty telling, and a good indication of what to expect if I'd consider moving to the Valley. Clearly, at least the maker of the poll seems to assume that I can expect to earn at least $80k-ish. I earn a bit over half that now. This is a very big difference. Additionally, given t…

Statistically speaking, you can draw the conclusion that your salary is substantially lower than typical of people who responded to this poll. You can't draw any conclusion about your salary in relation to the overall market, because the poll respondents are not randomly distributed among the population of the overall market and you have no information about the demographics of who chose to respond.

But if you drop the strict statistical sense and just look at the results with common-sense realism, yes you can figure that the poll generally reflects the broad reality and aiming for the middle of the poll range would be reasonable to request.

The people shooting down the first line of thinking are being pedantic about statistical rigor and the meaning of a conclusion. The poll is not statistically reliable because the sampling is not truly random, and it's not at all useful for making fine-grained distinctions between $120k and $125k. They are right, but you can ignore them and apply common sense for broad realistic purposes. The median salary in Silicon Valley is clearly not $40k.

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