Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#41

Post by afsina » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 9:58 AM UTC

nakkaya wrote: post #38

afsina wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a gross exaggeration. Ban on abortion was there before, is still there. My take, I support ban on abortion except some cases. Ban on alcohol: They ban consumption in public places. it is becoming close to the Many Eurepean counties level. But not there yet. Jailing journalists: Most of them involved with PKK (A terrorist organisation acknowledged by US and EU) directly. However, I agree the ones did not do ac…

Forcing Religion on children: No I mean Imams acting as guidance counsellors. Children refusing to take religion classes not given their grade cards. Restrictions on TV: You do not /can not threaten to cancel a TV show as a prime minister because the show portrait a Ottoman sultan in a way he did not like (I do not watch tv I don't know the exact details but that’s basically what he said.) Still not a single governme…

Imams acting as guidance counsellors: If there is a demand, I see no problems. No body is forcing people to do that. Edit: Also it would be nice for Imams to give some consultation they are virtually doing nothing. Your second sentence sounds like a stupid rumor. Good citation please. Again, To me whole minister of religion can go away (which was founded by Ataturk).

TV: Well blame press for their cowardliness. Threatening means nothing. Things go court, you win or loose. If they had some balls, they would broadcast whatever they want. Wake up, press is a business. Plus note, I see a lot of coverage in gazettes. But not following TV for years, so cannot comment on that.

Jailing Journalists: Then you are talking about 10-20 people. It is a shame they are there. But would have been same in 1930s,40s,50s,60s,70s..

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#42

Post by _b8r0 » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:03 AM UTC

nakkaya wrote: post #35

TheSmoke wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military in Turkey was a tool of the Kemalist regime and vice versa. Erdogan did change that. You call it gutting the military and I call it the right thing to do and to tell the truth I am happy with the result. Let's just keep the military in a place where they belong and have them out when they are needed. I don't need the military to protect the regime, I need it to protect me and my land. The incidents are nothi…

> He was thrown into prison And the same guy, now prime minister jailed a world renowned pianist because he quoted a poem criticizing Islam (for foreigners technically court jailed him but they basically control that too) . Repeat after me Turkey as a country does not have a religion. You can believe in the power of the stone for all I care as long as you do not throw it on my head. Erdogan's actions are just doing t…

> which if it wasn't for him Turkey would be Christian country.

I really don't understand this? How would Turkey be a christian country if it wasn't for Ataturk? The Seljuks invaded Constantinople in 1453.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#43

Post by zalew » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:04 AM UTC

afsina wrote: post #39

zalew wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, but uhmm, I was asking about recent developments in Istanbul, not islamization. btw abortion is forbidden in Poland, so is drinking on the street, and we have religion at primary school as well as other sorts of political and social influence by the church. and yeah, I know about how Turkey is leaning towards an islamic state and Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave, but your particular examples are not that…

Well, it is subtle really. I suggest you to read the comments with a grain of salt (Including mine and that lecturer). People are politically biased and especially bias is strong against the current government. Always look at the cases not general statements. As you compare with Poland, we are not that different indeed. Perhaps even less restrictive in cases. I lived in Istanbul from 1990 to 2003 then in 2009. I can…

> Government are starting to restructure parts of the city destroying old housings. It is a good move but I am skeptical on their artistic eye.

I'd be careful. such 'improvements' cause resettling, thus spliting local communities, and such actions smell really bad, not only because it pumps up property prices but it also weakens the integrity of citizens.

booze/cigarette bans and abortion discussions are a great distractor. usually brought up when there is some shit to cover.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#44

Post by zalew » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:10 AM UTC

nakkaya wrote: post #40

zalew wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, but uhmm, I was asking about recent developments in Istanbul, not islamization. btw abortion is forbidden in Poland, so is drinking on the street, and we have religion at primary school as well as other sorts of political and social influence by the church. and yeah, I know about how Turkey is leaning towards an islamic state and Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave, but your particular examples are not that…

But this is not about Istanbul. It is not about a park or a shopping mall, you hear about Istanbul because that’s where 1/4 of the country lives in there are protests in Ankara Izmir Eskisehir Adana etc. > but your particular examples are not that radical to be honest. Every time I head that I like to remind people that Iran in the 70s was not much different than your average European country [1]. https://www.google.…

I know the modern history of Iran and could easily talk you out of this line of argument because the circumstances are completely different, but I don't feel like drifting this thread into that direction.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#45

Post by afsina » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:10 AM UTC

zalew wrote: post #43

afsina wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is subtle really. I suggest you to read the comments with a grain of salt (Including mine and that lecturer). People are politically biased and especially bias is strong against the current government. Always look at the cases not general statements. As you compare with Poland, we are not that different indeed. Perhaps even less restrictive in cases. I lived in Istanbul from 1990 to 2003 then in 2009. I can…

> Government are starting to restructure parts of the city destroying old housings. It is a good move but I am skeptical on their artistic eye. I'd be careful. such 'improvements' cause resettling, thus spliting local communities, and such actions smell really bad, not only because it pumps up property prices but it also weakens the integrity of citizens. booze/cigarette bans and abortion discussions are a great dist…

Indeed, but honestly, if you see some parts of Istanbul you would `really` want re-structuring. After the boom of local immigrants in 80's a mess of ghetto-like places covered the city. In the first major earthquake, major loss of life is expected because of them. So, I sympathize the effort, but economics and architecture of it will not please almost anybody except construction companies.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#46

Post by _b8r0 » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:12 AM UTC

pinars wrote: post #16

mtgx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me get this straight - you think military influence on a government is what can preserve democracy? Because you think that in the case of a government that is heavily military based, that military part of the government would be for people? You're free to believe that, I suppose, but you'd be ignoring most of the world's history. Revolutions happen when normal people rise up against the government, no the militar…

In most of the world, revolutions come bottom up. In Turkey, they came top down. It was the military that toppled the "sultan" and established the parliamentary system / Turkish Republic. And later it was a former general who set up the multi-party system (and didn't get elected). I know it sounds off, but what the Founding Fathers did for the US, the generals did for Turkey. Not a very healthy one I agree, but at le…

> It was the military that toppled the "sultan" and established the parliamentary system / Turkish Republic

The Young Turk Revolution, while supported by one army corp didn't topple the Sultan. The Sultan (Mehmed VI) was deposed by the Grand National Assembly of the Turkish Republic, a political body.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#47

Post by nakkaya » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:18 AM UTC

_b8r0 wrote: post #42

nakkaya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was thrown into prison And the same guy, now prime minister jailed a world renowned pianist because he quoted a poem criticizing Islam (for foreigners technically court jailed him but they basically control that too) . Repeat after me Turkey as a country does not have a religion. You can believe in the power of the stone for all I care as long as you do not throw it on my head. Erdogan's actions are just doing t…

> which if it wasn't for him Turkey would be Christian country. I really don't understand this? How would Turkey be a christian country if it wasn't for Ataturk? The Seljuks invaded Constantinople in 1453.

After WWI Turkey was divided between Christian countries France Greece England etc.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#48

Post by afsina » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:18 AM UTC

_b8r0 wrote: post #42

nakkaya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was thrown into prison And the same guy, now prime minister jailed a world renowned pianist because he quoted a poem criticizing Islam (for foreigners technically court jailed him but they basically control that too) . Repeat after me Turkey as a country does not have a religion. You can believe in the power of the stone for all I care as long as you do not throw it on my head. Erdogan's actions are just doing t…

> which if it wasn't for him Turkey would be Christian country. I really don't understand this? How would Turkey be a christian country if it wasn't for Ataturk? The Seljuks invaded Constantinople in 1453.

Actually it was Ottomans who invaded Constantinople in 1453.

The sentence about becoming Christian country is silly. It is the default cool-aid they give in elementary schools here.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#49

Post by _b8r0 » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:25 AM UTC

androidb wrote: post #17

enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

This is a side question, but we're going very soon on a 2 week holiday in Kemer, is there any real danger for tourists? Not that I don't agree with what you're doing, but I'm traveling with a 3 year old and there's not enough information on this from news media.

It could be extremely dangerous. The sun is very hot in Antalya. You should at least make sure your 3 year old has sun cream and maybe a hat to keep the sun off them.

If it gets too hot I would suggest you try a Turkish ice cream called Mado (similar to Italian gelato), or maybe a cool drink.

Also be warned that the 3 year old might get a lot of attention and people may give him sweets or soft drinks, particularly ice cream vendors or resort bar staff. This could be extremely dangerous as he'll be spoilt rotten. Most Turks absolutely love kids.

If you think you can cope with these risks then you'll be fine, but I'd understand if you decide to reconsider :)

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#50

Post by afsina » Sat, Jun 01, 2013, 10:33 AM UTC

zalew wrote: post #44

nakkaya wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not about Istanbul. It is not about a park or a shopping mall, you hear about Istanbul because that’s where 1/4 of the country lives in there are protests in Ankara Izmir Eskisehir Adana etc. > but your particular examples are not that radical to be honest. Every time I head that I like to remind people that Iran in the 70s was not much different than your average European country [1]. https://www.google.…

I know the modern history of Iran and could easily talk you out of this line of argument because the circumstances are completely different, but I don't feel like drifting this thread into that direction.

Iran was the favorite 'scare' object used by mostly status-quo governments in modern Turkish history.