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Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

theatlantic.com

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Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#91

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

iaskwhy wrote: post #79
Irishsteve wrote: post #71

Just anecdotal stuff, Friends in Greece who work for the government have not been paid for 6 - 9 months. But they stay in the job for whenever the pay day does come. Friends in Spain work for cash in hand because their potential employers save money on the various social insurance costs they have to put up, but cannot afford because times are tight. Local mid size companies are using the down turn as a great excuse t…

I don't think the cash in hand thing is happening in Portugal which is kind of surprising giving the small salary you get per month and the amount of taxes you pay now. Maybe they have some catch up to do.

There's a lot of it in Ireland, but then, there was a lot of it in Ireland even when times were good. We have this sense, as a nation, that if you can beat the system and get money for nothing, then you should. Probably a holdover from colonial times, which is sad.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#92

Post by gaius »

pinaceae wrote: post #78

it's bad, but not as bad as these stats make it seem. a lot of those youths do have jobs, but simply are paid cash in hand. when asked, they are unemployed for tax and insurance reasons. as long as illegal immigrant workers are working on the fields of spain, uneomployment simply cannot be that bad. nobody is starving. roads, bars, stadiums are full. money is circulating in the system. it just is black, untaxed.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Go to any cafe or bar in London and the chances are you will be served by a Pole. Think about that for a second: the labour situation in the UK is such that we have to import workers from 600 miles away to make coffee. Now these people aren't being paid under the table, they are legal employees or legitimate companies. So where are the Brits who could be doing these jobs? For whatever reason, unavailable.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#93

Post by alipang »

snowwrestler wrote: post #63
sliverstorm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea. Do we have evidence that indicates the alternative is any better? There's nothing that says both options can't be terrible.

The U.S. has not followed a program of austerity, and our economy and hiring is recovering faster than Europe's.

Sweden here. Went through heavy austerity in the 90s. Things going comparatively good now, just to give you some anectodal evidence for the contrary position.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#94

Post by fauigerzigerk »

snowwrestler wrote: post #63
sliverstorm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea. Do we have evidence that indicates the alternative is any better? There's nothing that says both options can't be terrible.

The U.S. has not followed a program of austerity, and our economy and hiring is recovering faster than Europe's.

Interestingly though, things are going to be reversed in 2013:

"The 17 countries that share the euro will have halved the pace of budget consolidation in 2013 compared to 2012, as the overall budget deficit of the euro zone fell by 1.5 percent of GDP in 2012 but will only shrink a further 0.75 percent this year, the European Commission forecast this month.

The United States plan to reduce their budget deficit by 2 percent of GDP in 2013 against 2012. Unless policies change the overall euro zone consolidation will be only 0.1 percent of GDP in 2014, the Commission said, against 1 percent in the U.S." http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/27/us-eu-economy-idUS...

But the U.S is coming down from a higher level.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#95

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

claudius wrote: post #87
douglasisshiny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that Germany is essentially the ECB -- no, it's not. As a lender of last resort, the ECB has failed. It has failed to acknowledge to lessons taught by history; and it has failed to look itself in the mirror now. Germany reaped the benefits of having small economies join the EU; now they refuse to take full responsibility; hell, they refuse to even allow, say, 4% core inflation for a couple of years to hel…

Yes, because they learnt the lessons from history and if there is anything that Germany wants to avoid then it is inflation. Furthermore, the ECB is controlled by a money-printing Italian and last time I checked, German influence in the ECB was extremely low, especially compared to the relative size of Germany within the EU.

I don't know if that is particularly true. The ECB has been obsessed with inflation since its inception, which is a particularly Bundesbank-like set of priorities. While the official political authority is delegated on a country basis, I suspect that most of the civil servants (i.e. the people who mostly make the decisions) are if not Bundesbank, somewhat influenced by that school of monetary thought.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#96

Post by obstacle1 »

autodafe wrote: post #75
obstacle1 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end capital ownership and property rights are just concepts we've collectively agreed are legitimate. Once living conditions become dystopian and wealth inequality skyrockets even more than it already has, I suspect society will legitimize "stealing" from the well. Notably, the well doesn't care whether or not you steal water from it. The water was never 'owned' by it in the first place.

I agree that ownership and property rights are an invention - though one of a free society. And you are correct that society can just as easily decide that these rights are no longer valid, though that is not a society I would ever consider free. To a certain extent that is happening already. The day the individual is forced to give up his last right and his last dollar to the ugly greed of the 'collective good' will…

Well, I think you've certainly got an interesting notion of freedom. I don't consider a life subjected to the will of a state free in any meaningful sense of the word. You're only 'free' insofar as your rulers choose to protect your interests.

This isn't to say that an ownership-oriented society is bad because it is unfree; just that it is inherently unfree, like any other formal system for living in cooperative groups.

So in my view, the argument for private ownership-oriented societies from freedom falls apart. And we're back wondering why we shouldn't 'steal' from the well.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#97

Post by michaelochurch »

pinaceae wrote: post #78

it's bad, but not as bad as these stats make it seem. a lot of those youths do have jobs, but simply are paid cash in hand. when asked, they are unemployed for tax and insurance reasons. as long as illegal immigrant workers are working on the fields of spain, uneomployment simply cannot be that bad. nobody is starving. roads, bars, stadiums are full. money is circulating in the system. it just is black, untaxed.

nobody is starving. roads, bars, stadiums are full. money is circulating in the system. it just is black, untaxed.

That is how countries end up like Greece.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#98

Post by rafski »

Nobody's hiring in Southern EU countries, because firing is too difficult/expensive there. All the protectionist laws that were meant to keep the employee secure naturally backfired and resulted in a steadily shrinking job market.

Employing someone in EU is like accepting them into a kindergarten, you assume full responsibility for them as if they weren't adults.

Matt Henderson gives an eye-opening first-hand report from Spain here:

http://www.dafacto.com/2011/02/12/the-unfortunate-consequenc...

Allow the employers to fire easily, they will have no problem hiring again.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#100

Post by toomuchtodo »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks were in trouble in Ireland, and Ireland stood behind them (which destroyed them). The banks in Iceland were in trouble and Iceland walked away from them. Much less pain in Iceland compared to what Ireland is going through. When in doubt and able, default.

Iceland had their own currency though, and from the looks of a graph I googled up they inflated the ISK 100% since before the crisis. Ireland and Spain don't have that option.

They do have the option; walk away from the Euro.
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