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Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

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Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#31

Post by afsina »

nakkaya wrote: post #28
zalew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall isn't it just a tip of the iceberg of what's recently going on in Istanbul? resettlements, demolishions of old architecture to replace with commerce, etc. I remember a local complaining about it when I've been there 2 years ago, since then I've heard more and more about how they are destroying neighborhoods. shame, it's an amazing city.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently h…

That is a gross exaggeration.

Ban on abortion was there before, is still there. My take, I support ban on abortion except some cases.

Ban on alcohol: They ban consumption in public places. it is becoming close to the Many Eurepean counties level. But not there yet.

Jailing journalists: Most of them involved with PKK (A terrorist organisation acknowledged by US and EU) directly. However, I agree the ones did not do action should have never been kept. There is a list: http://www.cnnturk.com/2012/guncel/03/07/tutuklu.gazeteciler...

Forcing Religion on children: If you mean mandatory religion and ethics lessons, it was there forever. This is bogus. My take, Governemnet should never deal with Religion.

Restrictions on TV: was there almost two decade ago.. RTUK was founded much before this government. Similar organisations exist in US and EU.

Recent events.. Well I blame government for being distasteful. Their architectural projects are far from beautiful. Also I dont understand their fetish on Ottoman-ism. There was no point resurrecting that stupid building on that park area. However, I also see protests more like opposition sides play ground. They find every opportunity to make things a show. That project was there for years and now it is time to protest? please. Also, a side note, if you stand on pressurized water like an idiot you fall and bleed.

Edited: Some wordings

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#32

Post by afsina »

androidb wrote: post #17
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

This is a side question, but we're going very soon on a 2 week holiday in Kemer, is there any real danger for tourists? Not that I don't agree with what you're doing, but I'm traveling with a 3 year old and there's not enough information on this from news media.

Danger would be similar to say going to Spain or a Greek island. Perhaps less.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#33

Post by diminish »

aytekin wrote: post #24

More photos http://www.odatv.com/n.php?n=gezi-parki-yikiliyor-haydi-taks...

it s like a scene from Avatar. Turks are revolting to stop the killing of 75 year old trees, police reacts violently and protests turn against the government.

Trees are leading the people..

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#34

Post by afsina »

diminish wrote: post #33
aytekin wrote: post #24

More photos http://www.odatv.com/n.php?n=gezi-parki-yikiliyor-haydi-taks...

it s like a scene from Avatar. Turks are revolting to stop the killing of 75 year old trees, police reacts violently and protests turn against the government. Trees are leading the people..

And protesters are destroying stuff around. Fantastic.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#35

Post by nakkaya »

TheSmoke wrote: post #30
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

Military in Turkey was a tool of the Kemalist regime and vice versa. Erdogan did change that. You call it gutting the military and I call it the right thing to do and to tell the truth I am happy with the result. Let's just keep the military in a place where they belong and have them out when they are needed. I don't need the military to protect the regime, I need it to protect me and my land. The incidents are nothi…

> He was thrown into prison

And the same guy, now prime minister jailed a world renowned pianist because he quoted a poem criticizing Islam (for foreigners technically court jailed him but they basically control that too) . Repeat after me Turkey as a country does not have a religion. You can believe in the power of the stone for all I care as long as you do not throw it on my head. Erdogan's actions are just doing that. I do not want to live in a country where kissing in public gets you arrested, homosexuals are hanged publicly or my daughter bought/sold like a common house good. When Erdogan criticizes something/someone (this went as far as calling the founding father a drunk which if it wasn't for him Turkey would be Christian country.) it is a democratic right when regular joe/journalist/MP does it he/she gets jailed.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#36

Post by zalew »

nakkaya wrote: post #28
zalew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall isn't it just a tip of the iceberg of what's recently going on in Istanbul? resettlements, demolishions of old architecture to replace with commerce, etc. I remember a local complaining about it when I've been there 2 years ago, since then I've heard more and more about how they are destroying neighborhoods. shame, it's an amazing city.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently h…

ok, but uhmm, I was asking about recent developments in Istanbul, not islamization.

btw abortion is forbidden in Poland, so is drinking on the street, and we have religion at primary school as well as other sorts of political and social influence by the church. and yeah, I know about how Turkey is leaning towards an islamic state and Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave, but your particular examples are not that radical to be honest. the Turk I talked to in Istanbul was a lecturer at an university and he told me they started replacing liberal principals with muslim ones, who obviously enforce their politics - penetrating the education system is serious stuff, not some beer ban (although I love beer).

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#38

Post by nakkaya »

afsina wrote: post #31
nakkaya wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently h…

That is a gross exaggeration. Ban on abortion was there before, is still there. My take, I support ban on abortion except some cases. Ban on alcohol: They ban consumption in public places. it is becoming close to the Many Eurepean counties level. But not there yet. Jailing journalists: Most of them involved with PKK (A terrorist organisation acknowledged by US and EU) directly. However, I agree the ones did not do ac…

Forcing Religion on children: No I mean Imams acting as guidance counsellors. Children refusing to take religion classes not given their grade cards.

Restrictions on TV: You do not /can not threaten to cancel a TV show as a prime minister because the show portrait a Ottoman sultan in a way he did not like (I do not watch tv I don't know the exact details but that’s basically what he said.) Still not a single government run TV station (basically all but two) said anything about the riots. How is that not a restriction?

Jailing journalists: I am talking about the ones that did not do anything but jailed. And half the army is in JAIL most not even formally accused for years and the people affiliated from the terrorist organization are called as witnesses imagine bin ladin as your star witness, and tell me this is not f.cked up.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#39

Post by afsina »

zalew wrote: post #36
nakkaya wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently h…

ok, but uhmm, I was asking about recent developments in Istanbul, not islamization. btw abortion is forbidden in Poland, so is drinking on the street, and we have religion at primary school as well as other sorts of political and social influence by the church. and yeah, I know about how Turkey is leaning towards an islamic state and Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave, but your particular examples are not that…

Well, it is subtle really. I suggest you to read the comments with a grain of salt (Including mine and that lecturer). People are politically biased and especially bias is strong against the current government. Always look at the cases not general statements. As you compare with Poland, we are not that different indeed. Perhaps even less restrictive in cases.

I lived in Istanbul from 1990 to 2003 then in 2009. I can say today, overall it is a more modern city. But problems like traffic persist. Government are starting to restructure parts of the city destroying old housings. It is a good move but I am skeptical on their artistic eye.

Also business as usual, construction companies close to government are better supported. This situation never changes.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#40

Post by nakkaya »

zalew wrote: post #36
nakkaya wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently h…

ok, but uhmm, I was asking about recent developments in Istanbul, not islamization. btw abortion is forbidden in Poland, so is drinking on the street, and we have religion at primary school as well as other sorts of political and social influence by the church. and yeah, I know about how Turkey is leaning towards an islamic state and Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave, but your particular examples are not that…

But this is not about Istanbul. It is not about a park or a shopping mall, you hear about Istanbul because that’s where 1/4 of the country lives in there are protests in Ankara Izmir Eskisehir Adana etc.

> but your particular examples are not that radical to be honest.

Every time I head that I like to remind people that Iran in the 70s was not much different than your average European country [1].

https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+70s&num=50&safe...

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