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Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

theatlantic.com

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Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#61

Post by anonymous »

brownbat wrote: post #59

The conventional (conservative/economic liberal/libertarian) wisdom is that employers are reluctant to hire new youths because these states mandate so many employer provided protections for any new hires. Employers become risk averse, unwilling to give anyone untested a first shot at the labor market. Evidence is somewhat mixed based on this chart. The UK has traditionally had lower severance ("redundancy") pay requi…

That's pretty much entirely false, at least as I can see it. Employers can and do hire young, inexperienced people on contracts that say "we can fire you when we want and we don't owe you". Those aren't proper long-term labour contracts, true, but it's precisely what you want for someone who's getting a job for the very first time in their life.

Edit: for the record, I'm from Bulgaria and our unemployment rate for under 25 years-olds is 28%, according to latest Eurostat data. Back in 2008 we were at nearly German levels (11% vs 10%). Interestingly, Germany is the only country whose rate has gone down rather than up in the last few years. Their graph is almost perfectly asymmetrical with the ones for countries of Eastern Europe.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#62

Post by [deleted] »

sliverstorm wrote: post #55
JamisonM wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they can keep writing cheques and cashing them, they have their own currency, it allows you to do that. The current problem is that the "core" of the EU thinks it is in their best interest to keep inflation down and let the other nations suffer. The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea.

The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea. Do we have evidence that indicates the alternative is any better? There's nothing that says both options can't be terrible.

[deleted]

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#63

Post by snowwrestler »

sliverstorm wrote: post #55
JamisonM wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they can keep writing cheques and cashing them, they have their own currency, it allows you to do that. The current problem is that the "core" of the EU thinks it is in their best interest to keep inflation down and let the other nations suffer. The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea.

The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea. Do we have evidence that indicates the alternative is any better? There's nothing that says both options can't be terrible.

The U.S. has not followed a program of austerity, and our economy and hiring is recovering faster than Europe's.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#64

Post by autodafe »

zanny wrote: post #49
autodafe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welfare, free health care, free education... Free to him but it has to be paid for by someone. As more people rely on those benefits, the cost goes up for those who contribute to the system. The frightening question is what happens when the well runs dry?

Considering how, in the US at least, wealth and asset holdings has extremely concentrated itself in the top fraction of the population in the last 30 years, probably not soon. I mean, most of these states aren't raising taxes, but are playing with monetary gears to keep money injection from spurring inflation (albeit they have had huge taxes for decades).

Just because the well runs deep, doesn't mean it's right to steal water from it, unearned.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#65

Post by sliverstorm »

snowwrestler wrote: post #63
sliverstorm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea. Do we have evidence that indicates the alternative is any better? There's nothing that says both options can't be terrible.

The U.S. has not followed a program of austerity, and our economy and hiring is recovering faster than Europe's.

Apples and oranges. The U.S. didn't crash as hard, and doesn't have some of the EU's unique challenges.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#66

Post by bodyfour »

adventured wrote: post #47
JamisonM wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they can keep writing cheques and cashing them, they have their own currency, it allows you to do that. The current problem is that the "core" of the EU thinks it is in their best interest to keep inflation down and let the other nations suffer. The best evidence we have so far indicates that this is a very bad idea.

Cuts or inflation, it's the same end result. One is just more of a fraud than the other. Inflation is almost universally preferred by the political class because it does a better job of hiding the erosion of purchasing power and standard of living.

They have a similar end result on wages, maybe. It doesn't matter if your paycheck (and public benefits) decrease outright because of austerity or its silently inflated away.

They differ though on who pays overall.

Inflation is a tax on anyone holding €-denominated assets. For those who have denominated debts at a fixed interest rate, it's a boon. I'm sure France wouldn't complain if they end up repaying their 10-year bonds at a negative real return.

Austerity is largely the opposite: countries (and people) who are in the worst financial situation feel the most pain.

It's perfectly understandable that those with money will want more austerity, while those without want more inflation.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#67

Post by obstacle1 »

autodafe wrote: post #64
zanny wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how, in the US at least, wealth and asset holdings has extremely concentrated itself in the top fraction of the population in the last 30 years, probably not soon. I mean, most of these states aren't raising taxes, but are playing with monetary gears to keep money injection from spurring inflation (albeit they have had huge taxes for decades).

Just because the well runs deep, doesn't mean it's right to steal water from it, unearned.

In the end capital ownership and property rights are just concepts we've collectively agreed are legitimate. Once living conditions become dystopian and wealth inequality skyrockets even more than it already has, I suspect society will legitimize "stealing" from the well.

Notably, the well doesn't care whether or not you steal water from it. The water was never 'owned' by it in the first place.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#68

Post by kposehn »

kposehn wrote: post #33
kposehn wrote: post #32

Youths with nothing to lose are how bloody revolutions start, rarely turning out well for any involved. I find one thing about the unemployment rate in Europe truly scary: There are a /lot/ of youths there with nothing to lose.

And another thing: austerity is all that stands between Europe and total collapse. They can't keep writing checks they cannot cash.

Clarification:

They can't keep writing political checks their economy cannot cash.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#69

Post by derda »

lignuist wrote: post #2

Interesting, how Germany decoupled itself from the rest of Europe in this graph.

In Germany it is common for young people to go from school to a apprenticeship (paid (but extremly little), Apprentices spend half the week at school the other half at the company), these can be anything from plumber, salesman to software developer. So they enter a company at the age of 17 and will often be employed full time when they finish, if not they still have a degree that will enable them to enter the job market on good terms. This is kind of a win-win situation, youth that did not qualify for university or dont want to go can jump right into a job and learn a profession. They will receive a dimploma from the chamber of commerce and even earn a little bit of money. For the companies, the workers are relatively cheap while they are trained, and they will not only receive pratical training in the company, but also a scholarly curriculum worked out by the chamber of commerce. In the last years we actually had the situation that companies cannot fill all their places for apprentices and some are actually looking to hire some from Spain.

Re: Europe's Record Youth Unemployment

#70

Post by jckt »

sliverstorm wrote: post #65
snowwrestler wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. has not followed a program of austerity, and our economy and hiring is recovering faster than Europe's.

Apples and oranges. The U.S. didn't crash as hard, and doesn't have some of the EU's unique challenges.

Likewise the converse statement is true and, I believe, important to mention explicitly: the USA has a uniquely advantageous position in this world.
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