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Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

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Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#11

Post by loupeabody »

angersock wrote: post #6

This is a hack piece. The paragraph most indicative of this? "This guy failed to make a major dent in music, and then moved into gaming because he thought he was good at Battlefield. He knew, KNEW, that he would be a valued member of any team, and he would rapidly move up to the ranks. He gets angry that he has to do many different tasks, although that's often part of the job. He gets mad that management doesn't allo…

Mean-spirited indeed. I don't really see what rebutting in such a venomous tone is meant to inspire in readers, besides more vitriol and less constructive discussion. It's a shame that this sort of writing is broadcast with such a high profile.

In defense of Ben though, I feel the original piece is pretty crass. That is, the author, Nathan, assumes so much self-importance that he feels justified in trying to incite an industry-wide strike of QA contractors. I suspect his experience, or at least his attitude towards working in QA, is pretty common among QA contractors.

I seriously feel like if the average Ruby Tuesday's waiter had an outlet like Kotaku to vet his/her frustrations about unresponsive management and lack of respect, they'd say something similar. Not to completely disqualify the Nathan's feelings, there certainly may be systemic organizational and operational issues with QA and other parts of the games industry, but there's nothing outrageous about it.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#12

Post by obviouslygreen »

socialist_coder wrote: post #4

Amen. That original article wasn't even worth a rebuttal. I started in QA (on EverQuest) when I was 20. No degree, just a couple level 60 characters. After 2 years of overtime, hard work, and taking programming classes at the community college I got a junior programmer job in another department. 12 years later I'm a cofounder and CTO at my own indie game startup. The system works!

"The system works" does not follow from your anecdote. "It did not suck horribly for me" would be a more apt conclusion; personally I don't believe it's intended to do what it did for you. Gaming QA is intended to QA games. Corporations are intended to serve their purpose and use their assets effectively, not to groom them to start their own companies.

Don't get me wrong -- good work! I'm glad good things came out of it for you. I just don't think this generalization is valid.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#15

Post by stcredzero »

loupeabody wrote: post #11
angersock wrote: post #6

This is a hack piece. The paragraph most indicative of this? "This guy failed to make a major dent in music, and then moved into gaming because he thought he was good at Battlefield. He knew, KNEW, that he would be a valued member of any team, and he would rapidly move up to the ranks. He gets angry that he has to do many different tasks, although that's often part of the job. He gets mad that management doesn't allo…

Mean-spirited indeed. I don't really see what rebutting in such a venomous tone is meant to inspire in readers, besides more vitriol and less constructive discussion. It's a shame that this sort of writing is broadcast with such a high profile. In defense of Ben though, I feel the original piece is pretty crass. That is, the author, Nathan, assumes so much self-importance that he feels justified in trying to incite a…

> That is, the author, Nathan, assumes so much self-importance that he feels justified in trying to incite an industry-wide strike of QA contractors.

I see some parallels with the world of customer service call centers and the hospitality industry. The much of industry and management see the job as low skilled and the employees as disposable. If you look closer, there's actually a big difference between the crappy employees and the good ones, it's just that direct measures are difficult and there's a culture of looking down on those professions.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#16

Post by bashinator »

loupeabody wrote: post #11
angersock wrote: post #6

This is a hack piece. The paragraph most indicative of this? "This guy failed to make a major dent in music, and then moved into gaming because he thought he was good at Battlefield. He knew, KNEW, that he would be a valued member of any team, and he would rapidly move up to the ranks. He gets angry that he has to do many different tasks, although that's often part of the job. He gets mad that management doesn't allo…

Mean-spirited indeed. I don't really see what rebutting in such a venomous tone is meant to inspire in readers, besides more vitriol and less constructive discussion. It's a shame that this sort of writing is broadcast with such a high profile. In defense of Ben though, I feel the original piece is pretty crass. That is, the author, Nathan, assumes so much self-importance that he feels justified in trying to incite a…

> if the average Ruby Tuesday's waiter had an outlet like Kotaku to vet his/her frustrations about unresponsive management and lack of respect, they'd say something similar.

They do - it's at http://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer and honestly, I have a lot more sympathy for what most of the people telling their stories there go through.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#17

Post by rubyn00bie »

"Every job in video gaming has a line of people waiting to take it, and you will be abused at the lower end of the spectrum. Hell, you'll be abused at the higher end of the spectrum. Make peace with that idea"

This is purely shocking to me... How on earth is it this practice acceptable? Why the hell should anyone make peace with the idea of abuse by your employer? Why shouldn't someone strive to make this better instead of accepting this shit?

This is exactly why labor unions were formed in the first place, and why we as workers have rights. To say we need to accept this is bullshit. Pure bullshit.

Oh well, trolls will be trolls... c'est la vie.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#18

Post by zackmorris »

While I can sympathize with both points of view, my default position is to try to relate to the injured party. The original author brings up several valid points about the nonchalance of the video game industry and effectively points out that no matter how much skill or experience one acquires, it's often written off by people who are perhaps too brazen to be in positions of power.

Something else to consider is that the job market in Texas is almost certainly less fair than the one in Silicon Valley. Living in Idaho, I've encountered an amazing level of distrust and incredulousness in the jobs I've held. My bosses just didn't expect that a local kid would actually know what he's talking about. Low wages, no benefits, no time off and no job security is what you'll generally find in red states.

Churning up and spitting out people who could potentially make the industry better is not something to be proud of. Articles like this are symptomatic of structural problems in the tech world, mostly vast wealth inequality and disenfranchisement from the decision making process. I don't see it changing any time soon until IT workers organize.

Maybe that's not the most popular view among some of the nouveau riche libertarians who are on the rise, but I wouldn't expect it to be. The largest found pain in 'Merika right now is the dysfunctional economic system. When that's fixed (and it will be) the profits for the general population will pay out in ways that are difficult to imagine right now. It's going to start with democratization of the workplace. I hope the original author keeps applying his talent to evangelizing what's wrong with the status quo.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#19

Post by socialist_coder »

obviouslygreen wrote: post #12
socialist_coder wrote: post #4

Amen. That original article wasn't even worth a rebuttal. I started in QA (on EverQuest) when I was 20. No degree, just a couple level 60 characters. After 2 years of overtime, hard work, and taking programming classes at the community college I got a junior programmer job in another department. 12 years later I'm a cofounder and CTO at my own indie game startup. The system works!

"The system works" does not follow from your anecdote. "It did not suck horribly for me" would be a more apt conclusion; personally I don't believe it's intended to do what it did for you. Gaming QA is intended to QA games. Corporations are intended to serve their purpose and use their assets effectively, not to groom them to start their own companies. Don't get me wrong -- good work! I'm glad good things came out of…

I don't disagree with your first statement. QA is not supposed to be a training ground, but it does kind of turn in to one since that is the only entry level job you can get in the gaming industry without a degree / experience. Most of QA is trying to get promoted up to an artist, designer, programmer, or producer. I've worked at multiple game companies now and every one was like that.

Plus, you can make your argument for any job/company where you are learning new skills and getting better- which should be every job for a professional. Why would any company promote that? And yet, any company worth working at does.

Re: Dear Halo 4 QA tester: We don’t need to strike

#20

Post by dylangs1030 »

thoughtcriminal wrote: post #13

Kicking a man while he's down and trying to affect positive change? Heartless Penny Arcade. Absolutely heartless.

I think that's a bit extreme. It's not as though Penny Arcade sold people a bad service or product.

They have a right to their opinions, and they have a right to use their platform as a soapbox to broadcast them. Nothing wrong there. If you disagree, you disagree.

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