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Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

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Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#111

Post by hoggle »

ryanac wrote: post #65
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

This would be fine if many prisons were not privately owned entities and if most inmates were not overly sentenced for minor drug charges. We also have a growing incarceration rate (U.S), which shows that prison does a pretty poor job of making people "scared absolutely shitless of prison so much that they play exactly by the rules" and don't forget, sometimes the rules are pretty ridiculous. Also "...individuals tha…

True, some institutions shouldn't be privatized at all even though it might look like it's cheaper or more efficient to do so.

It's not always about money, at least not here in Austria. I'm glad we have a baseline level of wealth. Do we always need more? Trying to be better, faster, stronger? When do we stop? Does it make sense in the end? Is it even really guaranteed to be the most productive strategy?

Isn't the fact that I can walk through the most "sketchy" Vienna neighborhoods in the middle of the night worth quite a bit? Again I'm not talking about money here.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#112

Post by philwelch »

ippisl wrote: post #19
philwelch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about rehabilitation or punishment. It's far more cynical than that. It's simply a matter of separating people from the population. Prisoners are separated from the free population; especially dangerous prisoners are separated even from the prison population.

It's pretty easy to physically separate people but still let them communicate with others. It looks like revenge.

Not letting them communicate is often the point. You don't want someone running a gang or something from prison.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#113

Post by mpyne »

eru wrote: post #104
jrokisky wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many problems with the US Justice System, but those standards are impossible for any country to meet.

Norway and Sweden don't seem too bad.

Assange apparently disagrees.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#114

Post by cabalamat »

scrapcode wrote: post #49
InclinedPlane wrote: post #44

People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

Yet prison isn't as scary in Norway and they have lower crimes rates than the USA. So your argument is wrong.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#115

Post by joyeuse6701 »

Hmm, you know, this is a comparison of two different prison systems with two different prisoners. I fail to see a control here. As much as the observation of one person that has been through a system would be valuable insight looking into another, I don't find it anything more than subjective.

I bring up the point about two different prisoners in that 1. I don't believe all prisoners should be treated alike and 2. Different strokes for different folks. As for baseline humanity, again that is subjective. Pirates viewed marooning with some jug of water and a knife and shot as humane. I don't think that fits today's standards of humane treatment.

The article suggests that because of one man in the system the exception if you will, is getting screwed, we must do more to prevent this from happening. I'd argue that if this was a computer system, one exception isn't something to write home about. Many exceptions depending on how you define it however...

Systemic exceptions are expensive to fix and will cost us all a good amount in practice, so the real question we may ask ourselves is, how much money are we willing to put in taxes to overhaul the system? More specifically how much are each one of us willing to pay? A lump some of a dollar? Sure. A million dollars? Not so sure.

  Anyway, it's a mother jones article, it and many like it prey on the notion of self-hate and guilt-ridden introspection that many of the U.S. audience loves to talk about, including me!

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#116

Post by [deleted] »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #97
yardie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why even bother with books and solitary. Just flash freeze them like in Demolition Man. The prison system doesn't stimulate anyone. Crimes are primarily committed because of motive, opportunity, and/or mental illness. Poverty is a great motivator. If you're an ex-convict your opportunity to get a respectable job drops precipitously, to be a drug dealer requires no prior experience and no background check. I'm not con…

This is pretty US-centered point of view, I invite you to look upon it from distance.

[deleted]

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#117

Post by [deleted] »

_account wrote: post #92
w_t_payne wrote: post #75

The nature of America's prison system is driven by the fact that middle class white people vote for politicians and policies that put poor black people through a cruel, inhumane and all-too-usual system of torture and deprivation. Is unusual sadism a national characteristic? I do not want to think so, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

I didn't know that the laws so clearly stated that black people are singled out to be tortured. Can you provide at least one reference to this atrocity? [I'm guessing you can't]

[deleted]

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#118

Post by yardie »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #97
yardie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why even bother with books and solitary. Just flash freeze them like in Demolition Man. The prison system doesn't stimulate anyone. Crimes are primarily committed because of motive, opportunity, and/or mental illness. Poverty is a great motivator. If you're an ex-convict your opportunity to get a respectable job drops precipitously, to be a drug dealer requires no prior experience and no background check. I'm not con…

This is pretty US-centered point of view, I invite you to look upon it from distance.

Poverty is an overwhelming contributing factor to crime and thus prisons. So, while my views are mainly focused on the US justice system in what other countries does this not apply?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#119

Post by eru »

mpyne wrote: post #113
eru wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway and Sweden don't seem too bad.

Assange apparently disagrees.

From what I remember, he would be fine with being tried in a Swedish court. He just wanted a guarantee of no US extradition, that Sweden would not provide.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#120

Post by vasco »

khafra wrote: post #98
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

> Prison has to be scary. It has to strike one as the number one place that you do not want to go. It's the other ultimate consequence, along side of death. I can't imagine this world if it wasn't. If your theory were accurate, countries like Norway--with its extremely humane prisons ( http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.htm... ) would be crime-ridden hellholes. But Norway's homicide rate is 1/10…

You cannot make that assumption, there can be other factors that lower the rate to 1/10th and without those it could actually be 10x just because "prison isn't scary". I'm not taking any sides but you can't make that jump without controlling every other variable.
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