I guess a lot of people have seen Oz or documentaries about prison life in USA. I think the legitimate question would be - is solitary punishment not preferable to the life in general population?
Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
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Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#42A very sad read and the comments are even worse. This sort of thing so clearly crosses the line in to inhumanity. I appreciate that some/many of these inmates have committed awful crimes but it seems that this particular system offers no opportunity for rehabilitation and is focussed solely on punishment. I forget where I read it but I believe that there is a correlation between the severity of the punishment and it'…
It's not about rehabilitation or punishment. It's far more cynical than that. It's simply a matter of separating people from the population. Prisoners are separated from the free population; especially dangerous prisoners are separated even from the prison population.
Yet most countries, if not all democracies, do it far more humanely than the US does.
Why?
Why is the self appointed leader of the free world so inhumane?
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#43Get past the comedy, listen to the facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI
The facts stated have never been refuted.
Be ashamed. Either Americans are the most criminal in the world, or the US justice system has a real problem.
I mean, worse than Iran? Worse than China? South Africa? Are Americans really that bad?
Perhaps now we know a certain hacker preferred death. I know I would. As a British citizen, I would genuinely rather kill my self than end up in the US justice system. Do not doubt that. And I know my government will not protect me from American "justice" either.
Im sorry, but this makes me very, very angry. If a country cant get justice right and fair, then Im sorry, I believe it has no right being a country, let alone being a country that thinks it has the right to interfere on the world state, and have the sheer arrogance to pontificate on others.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#44People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs.
Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be brutal punishment and torture, with no concern for justice, fairness, or humaneness. Prison rape is a punch-line, it's not even on the radar as a political issue.
The public acknowledges, accepts, and approves of prison experiences as not merely pragmatic methods of keeping some folks separate from public society, and especially not as rehabilitory, but as retributive, vengeful, and arbitrary. These are the basest and most despicable sentiments when it comes to issues of criminal justice, but they rule the day in the 21st century as much as they ever did in the middle ages or even in the stone age.
This is easily one of the most significant issues of our time, as significant and important as the Cold War in the 20th century or the struggle over the abolition of slavery in the 19th.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not about rehabilitation or punishment. It's far more cynical than that. It's simply a matter of separating people from the population. Prisoners are separated from the free population; especially dangerous prisoners are separated even from the prison population.
The main purpose of prison is to act as a disincentive. A lot of people don't commit crimes in the first place because they are scared of going to prison.
Clearly doesn't work then does it?
One of the highest prison populations in the world. If it were a deterrent, people wouldn't commit crimes that get them in prison, would they?
Either its no deterrent, or Americans are the most criminal in the world.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that psychological forms of harm are not treated with as much respect as physical forms. There are no pictures of it, you cannot see it. It is the same reason why people struggle to see a psychiatrist but not a doctor. Lack of sleep is also deployed in some countries ie. the guards won't let you sleep.
The real problem is that the US is part of no international treaty on human rights. Turkey and France have a way more fair process now thanks to the European Court of Human Rights. They have also put hard limits on terrorist law etc. It's slow but it's a real adult supervising the local politicians with true values.
The US vigorously refuses to be part of any of that. Now you know why.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#47Solitary confinement is now so obviously a form of torture that it's surprising this is still controversial. Future generations will surely look on it the way we look on past barbarities.
What sets it apart from other forms of punishment? The definition of "torture" seems somewhat flexible.
Only to a torturer seeking self justification. Which makes them guilty because to seek self justification one must know one is doing some thing wrong.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#48People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…
Some of what you mentioned here, if not most, seems specific to the USA, from my western European point of view. Do you know of any explanation for that?
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#49People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…
I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home.
Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it were just a means of keeping folks separate from society, I know plenty of unmotivated individuals that would love to sit around with a bunch of other lazy-asses and be fed 3 meals a day. For free. Don't you?
Prison has to be scary. It has to strike one as the number one place that you do not want to go. It's the other ultimate consequence, along side of death. I can't imagine this world if it wasn't.
Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons
#50Get past the comedy, listen to the facts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI The facts stated have never been refuted. Be ashamed. Either Americans are the most criminal in the world, or the US justice system has a real problem. I mean, worse than Iran? Worse than China? South Africa? Are Americans really that bad? Perhaps now we know a certain hacker preferred death. I know I would. As a British citizen, I…
"A legal system based on baseball just seems bizarre."
So simple and so horribly true. Criminal justice politics in America is utterly overrun with the crudest and most cynical pandering to simple fear, revulsion and vindictiveness.