Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 85 posts

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#61

Post by tptacek »

Zak wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delivering work for paying clients in a vanity language because you're bored of PHP sounds pretty close to malpractice.

It does, but using haXe based on its merits isn't. It's not hard to find good reasons to avoid PHP as an implementation language; PHP is popular mostly because it's as easy platform for deployment. If a superior language[0] allows targeting that platform, it's a win-win situation. The obvious counterargument is that it makes finding developers harder, but I don't think that's the case. The Python Paradox applies here…

We don't have to get into a debate about PHP (I don't use it either); its virtue in this scenario is that after this guy gives up on the client, someone else can easily step in and pick up the project, because everybody knows PHP.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#62

Post by keefe »

johns wrote: post #46
keefe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the motivation for locking yourself into the micro$oft stack? Why not use Java with a javascript (jquery/yui/ext etc) front end or even (shudder) JSPs? Spring framework? Anything but .net lock in...

Can we grow up and stop using $ when referring to Microsoft?Most of us here are in business to make money, but no one is calling this site Hacker New$. Now in regards to lock in. How is it different from any other stack? If I build something with ASP.NET MVC (which has the source available under the MS permissive license) I can run it on Windows or any machine running Mono.

The difference is that microsoft deliberately enacted a monopoly and did dozens of highly questionable things just for the sake of profit. Just think about a company where the policy is, write code that is as inefficient as you like because hardware will catch up oh and btw we are in bed with intel...

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#63

Post by j_baker »

juliusdavies wrote: post #33
j_baker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, using things other than PHP is still pretty difficult with dreamhost.

It is? Here's a python CGI script: http://juliusdavies.ca/svn/viewvc.cgi/not-yet-commons-ssl/ The viewvc.cgi starts with: #!/usr/bin/env python I just dropped the script into my ~/juliusdavies.ca/svn/ dreamhost directory. Didn't seem hard to me.

Well yeah. For a plain old CGI script it's not terribly difficult. But that just doesn't scale well nor is the script easy to write. Consider the instructions for setting up django on the other hand: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Django

This is much more complicated than it needs to be. Especially when I can just log into my account with webfaction, click "install django application" and be done with it.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#64

Post by greggraham »

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #41
jrockway wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not being a language snob. It's just plain hard to write good code in languages like Java and PHP. You spend so much time fighting the language and tools that you barely have time to think about solving your client's problems. That gets boring and tedious, so I can understand why the OP is bored. (The fact that some people have tolerance for this stupidity is not worth arguing about. Some people enjoy digging di…

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best demain, then you're doing it the wrong way. I've been writing PHP apps for a few years now, and I contribute to multiple PHP webapp projects, and I'm never fighting the language. PHP is capable of doing just about anything that any other language can do; you just have to work with PHP and stop trying to make it act like Ruby or Python. PHP has an absolutely e…

I know that PHP brings a lot of good things to the web development arena, but I'm glad I've never had to use it for anything of significance. I've been able to use Python/Django and Python with Google App Engine, and they are delightful to work in. I know I produced a better product for my clients with Python than I could have with PHP. Someone else might have done better with PHP, and that's great for them.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#65

Post by greggraham »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
keefe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the motivation for locking yourself into the micro$oft stack? Why not use Java with a javascript (jquery/yui/ext etc) front end or even (shudder) JSPs? Spring framework? Anything but .net lock in...

The tools. Spend a week writing C# in Visual Studio.NET with ReSharper installed, then try to go back to your old language and IDE. You'll understand.

I spent a year writing C# in Visual Studio and ReSharper, and it is nice, but I'm happier now doing Python with Emacs and the command line.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#66

Post by keefe »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
keefe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the motivation for locking yourself into the micro$oft stack? Why not use Java with a javascript (jquery/yui/ext etc) front end or even (shudder) JSPs? Spring framework? Anything but .net lock in...

The tools. Spend a week writing C# in Visual Studio.NET with ReSharper installed, then try to go back to your old language and IDE. You'll understand.

I've never used those but how can it be so much better than eclipse + all the commercial plugins? Closed source can never beat open source in the end...

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#67

Post by Zak »

tptacek wrote: post #61
Zak wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, but using haXe based on its merits isn't. It's not hard to find good reasons to avoid PHP as an implementation language; PHP is popular mostly because it's as easy platform for deployment. If a superior language[0] allows targeting that platform, it's a win-win situation. The obvious counterargument is that it makes finding developers harder, but I don't think that's the case. The Python Paradox applies here…

We don't have to get into a debate about PHP (I don't use it either); its virtue in this scenario is that after this guy gives up on the client, someone else can easily step in and pick up the project, because everybody knows PHP.

I think the degree to which this works depends on the sophistication of the code. If it's a simple form handler, then sure, it's an advantage to be using a language that millions of people know. If it's more sophisticated, it may actually be a disadvantage; the non-technical client has to sort through hundreds of responses to a job posting with no useful means of telling applicants apart. A language like haXe currently only attracts those who are genuinely interested in better languages. Such people tend to be decent programmers, so any of the 5 or so people who respond is likely to be a good choice.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#68

Post by wenbert »

Why not setup your own hosting for your clients? Problems always arise when you give the client options on the server. They do not know these things. Usually they always opt to have the cheaper plan -- they are not technical people.

I have been using PHP for years now - no problems so far. Especially when Zend Framework came.

Re: Ask HN: I can't stand PHP anymore. What else can I choose?

#70

Post by Maascamp »

jrockway wrote: post #59
nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best demain, then you're doing it the wrong way. I've been writing PHP apps for a few years now, and I contribute to multiple PHP webapp projects, and I'm never fighting the language. PHP is capable of doing just about anything that any other language can do; you just have to work with PHP and stop trying to make it act like Ruby or Python. PHP has an absolutely e…

If you're fighting with PHP to create a webapp, PHP's best domain, then you're doing it the wrong way. "Best" != "Good" Web apps are no different than any other kind of app, except they take HTTP requests as input and generate HTTP responses as output. PHP does have some features for speaking HTTP, but that's about it. For the rest of the app, you are on your own. Let's look at the components of a web app, and see wh…

I rarely read such grossly misinformed posts on HN. A shame you spent so long on it.
Post reply on HN