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Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#71

Post by Shorel »

BCM43 wrote: post #47
alan_cx wrote: post #42

For what its worth.... Its my No3 son's 14th birthday and he has gathered enough money for a new PC. He wants a new one for school and games. He is not some geek programming whiz kid. He "uses" a computer, he "consumes" the internet. He is, in short, a mere kid user. He already owns a laptop with Windows 8. The discussion on spec and costs comes round to the operating system. Exact quote: "I don't want windows 8, its…

How much of that is him actually having tried it out and deciding that he does not like it, and how much is him having heard about windows 8, and deciding through that?

What I truly don't understand is why when it comes to Windows8 lots of people like you try to defend it, but when it comes to Ubuntu and Unity almost nobody does.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#72

Post by cpleppert »

darklajid wrote: post #70
leviathant wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absence of a start menu was confusing to me for about three minutes, and then I figured out that the Metro screen is the start menu, just full size. Ever since you've been able to pin programs to the taskbar at the bottom (or side if you prefer) of the screen, my usage of the start menu fell to pressing start, and typing the name of the program I hadn't pinned to the taskbar. The start screen's the same for me, m…

I fully agree: The start menu was never a good idea, we just used it. As soon as you start installing and removing things, it quickly became cumbersome. Windows XP (iirc?) introduced weird ideas of how to cope with the chaos in that evergrowing, 3-4 level deep list of things you might or might not want to start: The 'personalization' feature that kind of randomly hid most of your menu. The hacks to order the menu (wh…

>>- Pin programs to the taskbar - Use shortcuts for common/important stuff (Win+i, Win+x, Win+w, Win+f are the ones I need) - Use the type to complete thing otherwise

You can also use Win+Number to switch right to the taskbar program. quite convenient although I prefer using cap locks + home row keys to switch apps on the mac.

>>Most users I know moved to that workflow anyway, before Windows 8 (the start menu entry on previous Windows versions. Spotlight or maybe QuickSilver before that on OS X. Unity / Gnome Shell on Linux).

I agree. But if your workflow is shortcuts + quick search to open everything else it doesn't really matter if you use a start menu, something like metro or the mac os x dock.

But I think that if you are asking what is good enough for 90% of our users, is easily discoverable and reduces confusion it is hard to beat the start menu + taskbar. It isn't really a question of functionality, all you are doing is managing graphical icons that launch programs. The key should be reducing confusion for users who will use the program launcher for everything they do. I don't hear a lot of people arguing that the metro launcher was something that microsoft should have done without a focus on touch.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#73

Post by Shorel »

kvb wrote: post #61
potatolicious wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops." This is what frustrates me also. I've had Windows 8 installed since (almost) day one on my desktop. I also have a Surface (that hasn't been touched in months, oops). MS was accused for years of advertising Windows' touch capabilities without actually putting any real thought…

Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality. But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Wi…

I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of Windows.

That's where the current MS problem lies.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#74

Post by mikeash »

Shorel wrote: post #71
BCM43 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that is him actually having tried it out and deciding that he does not like it, and how much is him having heard about windows 8, and deciding through that?

What I truly don't understand is why when it comes to Windows8 lots of people like you try to defend it, but when it comes to Ubuntu and Unity almost nobody does.

There's no "defense" here, just pointing out the potential influences.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#75

Post by xentronium »

wmeredith wrote: post #16
jpreiland wrote: post #12

Search: "It is the modern version of the command line!" While the search feature they're describing sounds cool, I'm curious as to what they mean by a "modern command line".

This sounds like a "faster-horse" feature to me. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/15297-if-i-had-asked-people-...

Pedantic nitpick: Ford most probably never said or written that.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#76

Post by kvb »

Shorel wrote: post #73
kvb wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality. But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Wi…

I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of Windows. That's where the current MS problem lies.

But desktops really are disappearing, and this will only accelerate if BYOD initiatives succeed. Microsoft is in a tough spot - they could have made less drastic changes to Windows 8 to placate existing desktop users, but that's the path to obsolescence. Their execution hasn't been great, but I think that recognizing the shift away from desktops is the right thing for them to do if they want any relevance moving forward. Existing Windows 7 users don't need to "upgrade" if they are unhappy with the changes made by Windows 8.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#77

Post by jpreiland »

arrrg wrote: post #39
jpreiland wrote: post #12

Search: "It is the modern version of the command line!" While the search feature they're describing sounds cool, I'm curious as to what they mean by a "modern command line".

It's a text-based interface for browsing files and launching programs. You know, what many people used to do with a CLI when they had it. I assume they mean nothing more than that.

Okay. That's what I sorta assumed, but I wasn't really sure. I was just wondering how their "modern CLI" handled tasks other than searching for and launching stuff (which it probably doesn't). I don't think the "modern command line" description was optimal from the perspective of someone who uses the current command prompt (Windows 7, I haven't touched 8 yet but I might soon) to do development stuff.

The search bar on the Windows 7 start menu does what they're talking about to some extent (though I'm betting not nearly as nicely, and it certainly doesn't return web results). I know I just hit Windows Key > first few letters of an application > Enter to launch several things on my Windows 7 machine already. Sounds like they're making a supercharged version of this for 8.1 that includes web results/Skydrive stuff and the like.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#78

Post by Livven »

alan_cx wrote: post #42

For what its worth.... Its my No3 son's 14th birthday and he has gathered enough money for a new PC. He wants a new one for school and games. He is not some geek programming whiz kid. He "uses" a computer, he "consumes" the internet. He is, in short, a mere kid user. He already owns a laptop with Windows 8. The discussion on spec and costs comes round to the operating system. Exact quote: "I don't want windows 8, its…

These type of arguments are like No true Scotsman, just applied to the object instead of the subject.

Totally useless counter-anecdote to illustrate: I'm not much older than your son, I do program and tinker around with stuff and use command lines etc. but prefer Windows 8 over Windows 7. According to your logic that should not be possible, since if even your son doesn't like Windows 8, how can someone more technical than him like it?

BTW I don't care much for the Metro interface. It's barely usable on tablets but totally worthless on a desktop. However that doesn't make the desktop any worse – only the Start menu is missing, which I haven't used in Windows 7 either. Otherwise the desktop environment is another solid Vista-to-7 like improvement, though this fact usually gets lost in all the "OMG what is this Start screen" noise.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#79

Post by bcbrown »

potatolicious wrote: post #36
Tomdarkness wrote: post #18

For me, personally, none of these changes interest me, perhaps with the exception of IE11. I've had Windows 8 installed on my desktop PC since it came out as I took advantage of their cheap upgrade offer from Windows 7 (I'd not of paid full price for it). So here are my thoughts on the improvements in Windows 8.1 as someone who uses it on a desktop, with a keyboard and mouse. Personalization: The only time I ever see…

> "I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops." This is what frustrates me also. I've had Windows 8 installed since (almost) day one on my desktop. I also have a Surface (that hasn't been touched in months, oops). MS was accused for years of advertising Windows' touch capabilities without actually putting any real thought…

I was a test developer on the UI for Win8 for the first half of development, and tried a couple times to get the PMs to think about mouse/keyboard navigation in Metro, but never got anywhere. The bar was accessibility for blind people, not usability for people who preferred mouse/keyboard.

Re: Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

#80

Post by astrodust »

NZ_Matt wrote: post #69
mikecane wrote: post #64

This might help but I think everyone is missing one of the reasons why desktop sales have tanked: Their screens. People who are using tablets don't want to look at grainy big screens. These screens look blurry. Stop in any store and check out the all-in-one Win 8 touch desktops. Their screens are awful. And yes blah blah blah higher-res NON-touchscreen with mouse -- but going back to a mouse after touch? That's anoth…

Does the average person buying a laptop from Bestbuy really care that much about screen resolution? The longer lifespans of PCs and laptops combined with the popularity of smartphones and iPads is a more likely reason for the drop off in sales.

So long as a person's existing computer can still view Facebook, check email, and watch YouTube videos, there's no real impetus for them to upgrade. That tablets and phones are quite capable of doing this means there's even less need for a new PC.

Microsoft doesn't add anything new. Windows 95 was appreciably better at doing what people already did, there was reason to upgrade, and Windows XP took that even further. Ever since then they've been pretty rudderless. Windows 7 doesn't offer anything that Windows XP can't already do, apart from the new theming. At least it's inoffensive, though, and lets you do whatever you want to do without putting up a fuss.

Windows 8 is something nobody wants or needs, it's a very hard sell, and it's even more bizarre that Microsoft would be pushing so hard on touch into the market that least wants it: Corporate IT.

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