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EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

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Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#61

Post by mikeash »

mythz wrote: post #57
mikeash wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. "Don't" is a perfectly reasonable solution here. It won't satisfy all parties, but not all parties are worth satisfying.

The future of everyone being able to view online video (e.g. Netflix/Hulu/BBC) without a plugin is not getting anywhere closer.

Sure looks like it's getting closer to me. The amount of content I can view without a plugin has absolutely exploded over the past few years. Sure, big Hollywood names aren't in there yet, but it's not like they're the only ones who make videos worth watching.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#62

Post by fafner »

walid wrote: post #20

The way I see it is if DRM is going to be managed in Firefox and Chrome then it wouldn't necessarily block a determined person from circumventing it. Both browsers are open source. HTML5 DRM will only stop people from using regular copy/paste. I have a feeling that the EFF is over-reacting, but only time will tell what the right action should have been.

That's why the W3C proposal is a proposal for an API which proprietary plug-ins would use. The plug-in will do the decoding and rendering. Therefore the EFF is absolutely not over-reacting.

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-med...

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#63

Post by bcoates »

What's the Mozilla Foundation's position on this? Are they planning on staying involved in a post-DRM W3C?

It's about time to for the anti-DRM pressure groups to go down this list:

http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List

And start demanding the member organizations to make a public statement as to exactly how far the EME DRM standardization is allowed to advance before they will withdraw from the W3C.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#64

Post by alipang »

mtgx wrote: post #32
bitwize wrote: post #4

The Web is going to get DRM one way or another. Now we can do this the easy way, with standards that are agreed upon across vendors -- or the hard way, with proprietary plug-ins that only work in Windows and Internet Explorer.

The DRM will change nothing about platform interoperability. If anything, it will probably make the situation worse . For DRM to work, someone needs to control that DRM (which means plugins) - preferably as few people as possible. You can't really have "open DRM" or anything like that, which means "HTML5 DRM5" is completely inconsistent and conflictual with the values of the web, and what W3C is supposed to stand for…

Is it impossible to have an open DRM parametrized by some sort of secret key/cryptography/whatever?

Honest question.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#65

Post by marshray »

cynicalkane wrote: post #52

The market problem is that people want to consume expensive art. There is billions of dollars of interest in making this market clear. The market will not go away because a bunch of hackers find it unethical. As the war on drugs has demonstrated, the market interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it. I see a lot of opposition to DRM on principle . These principles will go nowhere. The interesting question…

If you're going to have that username you're not allowed to use terms like "the economic will of the people".

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#66

Post by mwcampbell »

cynicalkane wrote: post #52

The market problem is that people want to consume expensive art. There is billions of dollars of interest in making this market clear. The market will not go away because a bunch of hackers find it unethical. As the war on drugs has demonstrated, the market interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it. I see a lot of opposition to DRM on principle . These principles will go nowhere. The interesting question…

Does this proposed W3C standard really get us any further away from taking over our devices with god-knows-what secret solutions? After all, the CDM plugins themselves are still proprietary.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#67

Post by w1ntermute »

icebraining wrote: post #42
w1ntermute wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do I. That way will mean that I will probably never be able to use it on my (Linux) laptop, but that's fine, because I don't want to use something with DRM anyway. Torrents work just fine until the movie industry learns what the music industry learned the hard way.

The DRM proposals required binary blobs too for the actual decryption, so you'd probably be unable to use it on Linux either way.

Right, and so I'd rather see the W3C not compromise its integrity.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#68

Post by duncan_bayne »

alipang wrote: post #56
jlgreco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like it? Don't use it. ...and also feel free to complain about it. ... which is what he is doing . I have never understood responses such as yours. No part of being able to vote with your money means that you should only vote with your money. Capitalism does not mean that people shouldn't complain.

Just saying that DRM doesn't concern me. I don't feel it infringes on my rights, so no need to complain. It's an (my) opinion, feel free to complain as much as you prefer. Of course I also feel that businesses need a legitimate means of getting paid, and I prefer them using DRM over convincing congress to let them spy on us.

> I don't feel it infringes on my rights, so no need to complain.

That's a pretty narrow criterion for complaint.

How about the fact that the purpose of the W3C is to oppose everything that DRM enables?

How about the fact that blind, deaf or otherwise-handicapped people have real trouble accessing DRM-crippled content?

What of the fact that DRM bit-rot causes massive cultural content loss?

Are you concerned by the fact that DRM remains the single biggest obstacle to widespread adoption of FOSS operating systems?

Part of rational self-interest is maintaining a benevolent society in which to live. By only considering rights violations, and in particular only violations of _your_ rights, you're failing to do that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#69

Post by ronaldx »

cynicalkane wrote: post #52

The market problem is that people want to consume expensive art. There is billions of dollars of interest in making this market clear. The market will not go away because a bunch of hackers find it unethical. As the war on drugs has demonstrated, the market interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it. I see a lot of opposition to DRM on principle . These principles will go nowhere. The interesting question…

It's not correct for W3C to enforce policies that are worth billions of dollars to big companies at the average user's expense.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#70

Post by duncan_bayne »

shawnz wrote: post #60
alipang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how DRM is incompatible with their goals. Of course one might argue that DRM might be platform specific. However, I very much doubt this standard will make DRM more platform specific than it already is.

> However, I very much doubt this standard will make DRM more platform specific than it already is. Of course not! In fact, due to the nature of the web, it will make DRM in general less platform-specific! The problem is that HTML will become more platform-specific.

> Of course not! In fact, due to the nature of the web, it

> will make DRM in general less platform-specific!

Why do you think the inclusion of an EME standard in HTML5 will induce CDM producers to support operating systems that they wouldn't have supported without EME?

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