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EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

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Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#31

Post by duncan_bayne »

walid wrote: post #20

The way I see it is if DRM is going to be managed in Firefox and Chrome then it wouldn't necessarily block a determined person from circumventing it. Both browsers are open source. HTML5 DRM will only stop people from using regular copy/paste. I have a feeling that the EFF is over-reacting, but only time will tell what the right action should have been.

The issue is that the CDMs with which the sites integrate simply won't be made available on certain platforms. E.g. Netflix isn't available on Linux, and there's no evidence that the availability of EME would change that.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#32

Post by mtgx »

bitwize wrote: post #4

The Web is going to get DRM one way or another. Now we can do this the easy way, with standards that are agreed upon across vendors -- or the hard way, with proprietary plug-ins that only work in Windows and Internet Explorer.

The DRM will change nothing about platform interoperability. If anything, it will probably make the situation worse.

For DRM to work, someone needs to control that DRM (which means plugins) - preferably as few people as possible. You can't really have "open DRM" or anything like that, which means "HTML5 DRM5" is completely inconsistent and conflictual with the values of the web, and what W3C is supposed to stand for.

The reason there even seems to be a side that is "pro HTML5 DRM" is because they think:

1) it will make Netflix and such really cross-platform

2) you won't have to use "nasty plugins" like Flash or Silverlight

But none of the two is really true. You will have plugins, they will just be at the OS level, and good luck getting Netflix to work on new operating systems such as Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish, FF OS, Tizen, and so on - unless the company behind them can make partnerships with the content companies or content distributors like Netflix.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#33

Post by duncan_bayne »

I've made this point already on the W3C CEO's blog, but it bears repeating here:

DRM removes control of certain aspects of a device that I own, and places it in the hands of another. It does so in a manner that could not be less trustworthy: most DRM solutions are proprietary, closed-source applications.

This means that I can't rely on others to audit it for me (as with FOSS) and I can't audit it myself.

Some DRM implementations in the past have been so aggressive in their usurpation of control that they have qualified as malware; the Sony rootkit is a particularly egregious example of this.

DRM actively reduces the trustworthiness and security of all machines on which it is installed. It has to by design: its stated purpose is to restrict the capabilities of a general purpose computer.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#34

Post by zanny »

kunai wrote: post #3

The only true solution to the problem of DRM is to kill Hollywood. It's unlikely to happen, though. Many others have reiterated on this point, so I'm not going to waste my time iterating yet once more. http://ycombinator.com/rfs9.html

Economics will kill Hollywood if we resist their bribes to cripple open technology and they flounder into obscurity.

They currently control most of the chess board (from ISPs to copyright to the law in general) but we hold the key pieces (that are becoming more essential over time as the Internet becomes more global and pervasive).

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#35

Post by shmerl »

kunai wrote: post #3

The only true solution to the problem of DRM is to kill Hollywood. It's unlikely to happen, though. Many others have reiterated on this point, so I'm not going to waste my time iterating yet once more. http://ycombinator.com/rfs9.html

You can start with boycotting any DRMed media.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#36

Post by mwcampbell »

kunai wrote: post #5
roopeshv wrote: post #2

Here's a radical idea: If you don't want DRM on your website, don't put DRM on your website. They are not making anyone use DRM against their will.

That's extremely narrow-minded. First of all, the DRM is proprietary. Those using open-source browsers like Firefox or Chromium won't be able to view any sites that push DRM at their will; especially if it's integrated INTO the web standard itself. It doesn't only affect web developers, it affects users , and the fact that you can't see that is astonishing. I don't know whether to be appalled or amazed, to be honest.…

Actually, Google isn't as innocent as you might think. They acquired a DRM company called Widevine, and the Widevine DRM system is now integrated with recent Google Chrome dev builds.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#37

Post by shmerl »

bitwize wrote: post #4

The Web is going to get DRM one way or another. Now we can do this the easy way, with standards that are agreed upon across vendors -- or the hard way, with proprietary plug-ins that only work in Windows and Internet Explorer.

> The Web is going to get DRM one way or another.

Wrong. The Web already has DRM - Silverlight and other junk. The subject is about not dragging this garbage into the HTML standard.

> Now we can do this the easy way, with standards that are agreed upon across vendors -- or the hard way, with proprietary plug-ins that only work in Windows and Internet Explorer.

EME won't make DRM "easier" for users - it will still require closed source black box modules which will never work with open source browsers. It might make it easier for Netflix and co. who push this idiocy onto the web. But it's their problem, users and the Web should not oblige them with comfortable proliferation of unethical approaches. If anything it should be made harder, to give more incentives to avoid it.

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#38

Post by belorn »

ivanca wrote: post #19
chris_mahan wrote: post #13

when I first heard of DRM in HTML5, the first thing that came to mind was that web apps would be encrypted, and that the only interface people would have would be mouse or touch. This would essentially make the web like blue-ray: great for consuming content and playing scripted games, and not-so-great for everyone else. Also, how long before "safe" browsers only allowed drm-encrypted web apps, to "protect consumers"?…

That's the only natural evolution; for example the news sites will say: "Why the movie industry have protection but we don't? We need HTML5 DRM in our writings, is our copyright less important than theirs? I say no sir!" And slowly an internet where you can't use browser extensions, where you can't copy anything you read, where you depend on the existence of a company, a functional internet connection to play (just o…

Thats just the start.

Create sites which you can't leave or close? Easy, use drm and prevent any action that would closing the tab or give access to the url bar.

DRM is code with the intention to take full control over a device after sale. With that, any action is possible. Installing tool-bars, sending browser history, stealing information. The only protection is the letter of the law, and any hacker brave enough to reverse engineer the drm to identify what it actually do (under the threat of DMCA and jail time of course).

Re: EFF Makes Formal Objection to DRM in HTML5

#39

Post by jack-r-abbit »

chris_mahan wrote: post #21
kunai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what? That would be quite ridiculous. And the "safe" browser thing will never happen, so long as open-source is alive. Nobody can control the Web. The W3C is forgetting that.

What if netflix released its own browser, perhaps a fork of chromium, and all it could do was go to netflix and other such approved (read: drm-ready) sites that paid a fee to netflix? And what if parents made that the default browser on the device? To protect the kids, of course. Of course.

so you mean like a gagillion other HTML apps you can download for your phone/tablet?
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