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How to Negotiate a Job Offer

blog.upstart.com

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Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#61

> Pre-reqs – If you’re not currently working, and you don’t have competing offers, you’re pretty much out of luck. So task #1 is to make sure you have competition for your talents. Otherwise, you might be able to ask for something small around the margins (eg help with relocation expenses), but you’re not in position for serious negotiation. This is so, so true. Having a strong BATNA is 90% of negotiating. When I neg…

This is so, so true. Having a strong BATNA is 90% of negotiating. It's not true at all. No other offer? Unemployed for a year? It doesn't matter. When you get their offer, flinch, flare your nostrils, make an 'oof' noise on the phone - whatever, do what you need to do to convey you're not impressed. Then say "you'll need to do better than that," and shut up until they say something. Often you'll get an additional rai…

No other offer? Unemployed for a year? It doesn't matter.

Oh, but it most certainly does.

It may not affect how you negotiate, but it will certainly affect overall outcome.

By the time a company makes you an offer, they're emotionally invested.

With the exception of rare cases and poaching, no, they are not. This is not reflective of 99% of job offers. If you have built up a reputation as a superstar that can write their own ticket, then fair enough, you already have a BATNA and didn't even realize it - play hard ball.

If however, you are like a vast majority of job applicants, you are really nobody special. Some talent maybe, but not enough to make me drool. In this situation, the negotiation is very similar to every other purchase of goods. You are the vendor and the employer is the consumer.

In a land of multiple vendors, the consumer is king. I don't care how much you think your time is worth, I've already got a value in my head that I'm willing to pay for, and I'm going to do everything I can to pay less than that value and get myself a 'deal'.

Suppose instead of effort hours you are selling bananas. You and about 20 other banana stands. The first thing I as a consumer do is figure out how the banana market is looking these days, and determine the average quality and average price that the vendors are offering. I'm a savvy consumer now, so I figure that in order to not waste anyone's time, I'll pre-define the quality of the banana I'm willing to purchase (let's say higher than the average, but not the gold standard banana) and publicly state my intention to buy a fixed quantity.

Seeing a sale, you (along with others) contact me I take a look at your wares. I like what I see, and I know the market value, so I offer you the average price and see how things go....

Scenario A) You counter 30% higher. That's still in my price range, but I've still not seen the other banana vendors yet. I probably want to talk to them before I just give you that extra 30%. What's the rush after all? Your's isn't a bad offer, but I'm not sure it's the best...

Scenario B) You don't really counter, but simply tell me that you only have 50 bananas until next quarter and there's another guy down the street that's already told you he'd give you 20% more for them. He's on the other side of town though, so you don't really want to go out there...

In what scenario is the banana vendor in a stronger position to get that extra 30%?

If the outcome in this situation is so influenced by said externality, how do you figure it does not equally translate into a job negotiation?

A good BATNA can be an existing job, a high degree of skill, or a lot of comfort in your current situation. Regardless, having one gives you a tremendous advantage in any negotiation.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#62
This is very helpful. I've been impressed with my Stock Option Counsel clients' thoughtfulness in the "Run the Numbers" step. This is not easy with private company equity offers, but there is a right answer for each person if they put some thought into it.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#63
post #24

There is definitely good advice here, but a word of caution: Don't miss the forest for the trees. I've spent a lot of time helping people negotiate job offers. The predominant theme is that offers will vary a bit, and some negotiation may be necessary, but the couple thousand dollars on the table during the discussion is virtually meaningless. For most of the software devs reading this article, we're talking about a…

Well said, and I'm very curious about your proposals for making salary negotiations simple. Care to share more? www.stockoptioncounsel.com

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#64
post #55
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of it might have been bad luck but I didn't really think any of it was. I knew that I was bad at interviewing. I just didn't realize how bad I've been working for 8 years in three different companies: I found the first job (out of university) because a friend of mine worked there. The two following jobs were "found" because our manager moved and we (me, my friend and some others) move consequently as a team. I d…

I could nitpick a couple of grammatical points, but your English is better than that of many native speakers I have worked with. Unless you sweated over a dictionary for an hour to write the above comment, or your speaking is much worse, please make sure to market yourself as fluent in English!

Thank you for your kind words, could you tell me which grammatical points are incorrect so I can improve? Thanks!

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#65

> Pre-reqs – If you’re not currently working, and you don’t have competing offers, you’re pretty much out of luck. So task #1 is to make sure you have competition for your talents. Otherwise, you might be able to ask for something small around the margins (eg help with relocation expenses), but you’re not in position for serious negotiation. This is so, so true. Having a strong BATNA is 90% of negotiating. When I neg…

I felt the article missed the employer's BATNA though. If they loved you and your unusual skillset and their offer is well below market rate, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate than if they narrowly favoured you for a position they're not going to find difficult to fill, in which case they might be quite happy to suggest you walk away and work for BigCorp and their 30% extra perks package.

Very true. I have an illustration of this here: http://stockoptioncounsel.com/blog/negotiation-rhythms-2/201...

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the article missed the employer's BATNA though. If they loved you and your unusual skillset and their offer is well below market rate, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate than if they narrowly favoured you for a position they're not going to find difficult to fill, in which case they might be quite happy to suggest you walk away and work for BigCorp and their 30% extra perks package.

+1 for BATNA. So few people understand this core concept. http://www.beyondintractability.org/bi-essay/batna

Great link. Here's another one, with pictures: http://stockoptioncounsel.com/blog/negotiation-rhythms-2/201...

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#67
post #58

So, as a new employee out of college, if someone offers 100K, and you reply with "130K and we have a deal" are you going to be 1) laughed at and rejected 2) rejected 3) considered? I've always been one to just accept whatever -- "Yeah, that sounds good!" -- but I'm consciously preparing myself to avoid this tendency after I finish grad school.

You will almost certainly be considered. I've negotiated my offers up anything from 20% to 50%, which means usually my first counter-offer was higher than that. I'd never just say yes. By the time someone has made the decision to make you an offer, they have invested time in you, and will be psychologically invested in their decision - nobody likes "losing out", and so they will look for reasons to meet you. As long…

Well said.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#68
post #45
post #41

The article mentions a signing bonus. Does anyone have an idea on how common this this and in what type of situation asking for a signing bonus is appropriate and what some of the common numbers are in these cases?

Signing bonuses are fairly common. It's not a number that is well-arrived at by picking at random. The figure should be based on a calculated value exchange: ie,"I'm not fully vested at my current company, and will be giving up $5k worth of stock options if I leave. I'd like to have a $5k cash signing bonus as part of any new offer I'd take to offset that."

Well said. It's all about finding some "reason" to have a bonus -- something given up to take the position. Like someone said above, it doesn't have to be a great reason. Just a reason.

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#69
post #64
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could nitpick a couple of grammatical points, but your English is better than that of many native speakers I have worked with. Unless you sweated over a dictionary for an hour to write the above comment, or your speaking is much worse, please make sure to market yourself as fluent in English!

Thank you for your kind words, could you tell me which grammatical points are incorrect so I can improve? Thanks!

The only error worth mentioning is "last companies has failed". It must be either "company has failed" or "companies have failed".

Good luck!

Re: How to Negotiate a Job Offer

#70
post #59
post #14

The "Pre-Reqs" piece is not right. You really don't need to have another job offer or a current job to negotiate. A while ago I wrote up this script for how to negotiate a job offer with no leverage at all when you intend to accept it no matter what: http://bit.ly/1185CGm Most job offers come with leeway for negotiation, regardless of your situation. All you really have to do is ask.

What if they put the initial number on you? As in, they ask what you are expecting?

When this happened to me, I used legitimate data that was in my favor. I was graduating college and used the published salaries of graduates from my department as published by my department.

You can find numbers from glassdoor or look at what government salaries are for your job type in that location.

Just know that if you provide an acceptable range, they will lock in on the bottom of the range.

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