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Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

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Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#141

Post by gizmo686 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #85

Could the boot failure mechanism be exploited? I presume that Microsoft has a boot failure mechanism; after N failures to boot, firmware should turn off fast-boot. Is the display of the EULA screen considered a boot success? IOW, can you just reset the machine when you see the EULA screen a few times to get the ability to stop and adjust the firmware?

I suspect the EULA is considered a boot success, as it is bassicly just a program running in userspace. Having said that, you could still power-off during the actuall boot process. Or, if it behaves like BIOS fastboot, making minor changes to hardware configuration should trigger a full boot.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#142

Post by mjg59 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #140
mjg59 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spec says that the feature should be disabled if any UEFI boot entry other than "Windows Boot Manager" is chosen. Whether that's actually implemented, I don't know.

Regardless, it should be possible for the third party loader to claim to be "Windows Boot Manager". I can't imagine that there would be any cryptographic verification that the boot loader is actually "Windows Boot Manager". This is because the crypto logic is essential to check that the binary is signed by a trusted key. This process would happen before the UEFI thinks about entering the boot loader. It would also no…

It's entirely possible to do that, but that's a string that's (often) visible to the user. Now I'd have to remember which "Windows Boot Manager" is Windows and which is Linux.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#143

Post by jmhain »

Zak wrote: post #74
dheerosaur wrote: post #65

I paid money (I don't know how much, but will be close to 50-100 dollars) for Windows 8 when I bought my Dell Inspiron Special Edition because it had good hardware, but Dell didn't provide an option to get it without the OS. It was the only affordable laptop available with 1080p screen. After a week of many annoyances, I decided to delete all the Windows partitions. After installing Ubuntu using Legacy boot, I tried…

I paid money for Windows 8 when I bought my Dell Dell almost certainly preloaded some software in exchange for compensation that almost certainly exceeded what Dell paid for their Windows license. Even ignoring the testing, support and return issues people usually bring up, Dell probably couldn't sell the computer for a lower price with no OS or a free OS without losing money. In short, third parties effectively paid…

Interesting, considering I knocked quite a few dollars off the price of my current desktop when I bought it from Dell with Ubuntu preinstalled six years ago. Thanks Dell for losing money for me.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#144

Post by jmhain »

lifeguard wrote: post #69
ars wrote: post #44

What happens if you disagree with the EULA? (Does it have a disagree button?) What happens if you crtl-alt-del at the EULA prompt?

Or what if a 9 year old girl clicks through? She can not enter into any legal agreements (unless she is an emancipated youth). USA laws.

Ubuntu installation requirements: 2 gb ram, 1 ghz processor, 20 gb free hard drisk space, a 9-year-old girl

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#145

Post by bitcracker »

I don't understand why Linux users want Win8- or WinRT Pads.

Not only are they pretty expensive but there already are many cheap good Android Pads running a Linux kernel. There are also plain Linux pads on the market, and even Ubuntu plans to sell a Ubuntu pad soon.

So, what's the gain?

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#146

Post by jlgreco »

vetinari wrote: post #76
jlgreco wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that even thinkpad docking stations have PS/2 anymore. PS/2 support on modern laptops from non-obscure manufactures (leaving myself some wiggle room for whatever weird Chinese thing you might be able to buy on ebay) may very well be extinct.

Thinkpad T430s: Standard PS/2 Keyboard. At least the device manager in Windows says so.

That's the built-in keyboard, right? I thought those were USB for some reason, I guess not. I guess it would be more accurate to say that PS/2 connectors proper (6-pin mini-DIN) are likely extinct in laptops.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#147

Post by mjg59 »

bitcracker wrote: post #145

I don't understand why Linux users want Win8- or WinRT Pads. Not only are they pretty expensive but there already are many cheap good Android Pads running a Linux kernel. There are also plain Linux pads on the market, and even Ubuntu plans to sell a Ubuntu pad soon. So, what's the gain?

It's not limited to tablets. This applies to all Windows 8-certified client hardware.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#148

Post by bitcracker »

mjg59 wrote: post #147
bitcracker wrote: post #145

I don't understand why Linux users want Win8- or WinRT Pads. Not only are they pretty expensive but there already are many cheap good Android Pads running a Linux kernel. There are also plain Linux pads on the market, and even Ubuntu plans to sell a Ubuntu pad soon. So, what's the gain?

It's not limited to tablets. This applies to all Windows 8-certified client hardware.

I still don't get it. Microsoft is not that important anymore today as it had been for decades. There are extremely cheap ARM boards (Raspberry, Beagle Bone, etc.) that are almost suitable for Internet and Office applications right now. And I think soon we will have the next generation of Raspberry and Beagle Bones with 1.5 GHz dualcore or quadcore, and we can even built our own cluster of these boards for servers -- for instance, this one with 32 nodes:

http://t3n.de/news/raspberry-pi-cluster-467237/

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#149

Post by yuhong »

jlgreco wrote: post #146
vetinari wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpad T430s: Standard PS/2 Keyboard. At least the device manager in Windows says so.

That's the built-in keyboard, right? I thought those were USB for some reason, I guess not. I guess it would be more accurate to say that PS/2 connectors proper (6-pin mini-DIN) are likely extinct in laptops.

I think it was only common for a mouse, and the PS/2 keyboard controller was only designed to allow one keyboard and one mouse, meaning that the laptops supporting this try to merge the two inputs into one, which is error-prone, particularly when dealing with for example wheel mouse when the packet size changes. Raymond Chen has a blog post, and there is a comment from Ray Trent (then of Synaptics) for more about the problems: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2004/09/17/23083...

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#150

Post by mjg59 »

bitcracker wrote: post #148
mjg59 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not limited to tablets. This applies to all Windows 8-certified client hardware.

I still don't get it. Microsoft is not that important anymore today as it had been for decades. There are extremely cheap ARM boards (Raspberry, Beagle Bone, etc.) that are almost suitable for Internet and Office applications right now. And I think soon we will have the next generation of Raspberry and Beagle Bones with 1.5 GHz dualcore or quadcore, and we can even built our own cluster of these boards for servers --…

What use is a Pi when I'm sitting on a plane?
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