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Ubuntu 9.04 released

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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#111

Post by nailer »

jodrellblank wrote: post #53
quoderat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled

Is there a powershell cmdlet to replace netsh? I'm a *nix guy but actually think object pipelining is way better than scraping text.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#112

Post by jodrellblank »

quoderat wrote: post #108
jodrellblank wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windo…

It's not FUD, and it's not wrong. It took me hours of research to do a simple down/up in Windows -- something that took me 30 seconds of research in Linux. And you yourself illustrate all the odd and very long things you have to do in Windows to do a simple down/up of the NIC, and to get it to work correctly. While in Linux, I can just do "sudo ifdown eth0" All in all, I prefer the 30 second way, versus the five hour…

You're still claiming that it took you hours of research to do in windows without acknowledging that you're using an ancient version and that it is a one line command in current versions.

I could counter that in the scope of all possible operating systems there's no reason disabling a network adapter should be a simple thing and that you're picking on it because you considered it an easy thing in Linux' favour.

I could counter how much better it is to type "tracert" on windows than "traceroute" on linux, or that windows PPTP setup wizard blows Linux out of the water, or that there are uncountable things I've spent hours reaearching on bob platforms because they aren't as simple as I want them to be.

Or I could say "yoruban wax potato parachute"; I suspect any of the preceeding would result in further argument about how I'm proving your point.

I set out to counter your claim that x is too difficult in windows, but this further back and forth - it's not going anywhere, is it?

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#113

Post by jodrellblank »

krschultz wrote: post #96
RossM wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Windows pretty much all my life, but started out with Linux (Ubuntu, briefly openSUSe and back to Ubuntu again) a couple of months back. I don't see many problems with Windows apart from it doesn't like moving User documents/data to another drive. The resulting clutter from that is all down to me though. I haven't had an complaints with Vista. I'm warming more to Ubuntu now (although I only use it as a deve…

Blue screen of death at an inoppertune moment - then what? If the equivalent happens in Linux you put in a live CD and get that all important presentation off of it and go on your way. Not to mention that I can install Ubuntu freshly in under and hour, windows takes several times that by the time you install 4 drivers and reboot after each one, install a half dozen apps that aren't included by default etc. That was p…

Why did it BSOD?

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#114

Post by raquo »

mseebach wrote: post #50
halo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at an…

> I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.

I don't think there is anything noobish or wrong in thinking of your computer as just a tool (not that you said that directly, but it could be inferenced). What is it, in the end? A tool for communication, development, research, whatever.

Some people just resist any kind of change - they're used to Windows, they aren't going to try anything else, because they think (and they might be right in theory) that they don't need anything else.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#115

Post by raquo »

mlok wrote: post #47
Mongoose wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying that for 2 years. "The next version" is always when they'll dump the sordid brown.

Around me, people do like the Ubuntu look. But they're neither IT nor marketing savvy, so they're probably wrong :)

> But they're neither IT nor marketing savvy, so they're probably wrong :)

Really, geeks and marketers can't be wrong about what normal people like, except when that contradicts with what normal people say they like :)

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#116

Post by raquo »

Speaking of Ubuntu usability, I just don't understand why they require me to pick a location closest to me in order to download Ubuntu. In the age of free IP geolocation databases they could at least fill this field with a best guess based on my IP or a least loaded server...

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#117

Post by sep332 »

jodrellblank wrote: post #109
krschultz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So wait, the thing I paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for over the year won't give me the new fixes unless I fork over more money, but the free one will? I can see not getting new features put into XP, but fixing BUGS should be free.

"other people should work unpaid for my benefit". Bug fixing takes time, costs money. Linux + surroundings are unusual - the major projects are subsidised by our purchases from unrelated companies.

WTF?

I didn't pay for bugs, I paid for software. If it's buggy and they don't want to support it, they should sell it at a discount. If they charge me for a complete product, but the product is buggy, they owe me more software.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#118

Post by oomkiller »

Splines wrote: post #102
oomkiller wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said something monumental "Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure." Thats one of the biggest things that Linux has going for it, if something breaks, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE FIX! You can A. Fix it yourself; B. Get the latest source which probably has the fix (if it's a problem anyone else is having); or C. Filing a bug repor…

FOSS has many benefits, but I had always considered the fact that you can "fix it yourself" not to be one. Do any of you fix random bugs in your desktop applications? (Firefox, for example).

It might not be that real of an option for an average individual, but fixing it yourself in a large business could save you millions, depending on how big your IT Infrastructure is.

Think of this example. Company ABC has Windows XP deployed throughout their company. They need to upgrade some hardware, but the new hardware only has drivers for Windows 7 and Vista. Their only option (assuming a lot) is to upgrade to Windows 7 or Vista. Let's say that they have 1,500 desktops that need to be upgraded. I'm not aware of the details of VLK license prices, but let's say this will cost $150/workstation, including labor to install it. Roughly approximating, this comes out to at least $225,000. This doesn't even count the amount of money they will spend battling incompatible software and hardware issues, after the upgrade. -------------------------------- Company XYZ is using Linux Kernel 2.6.17, they have a problem with a piece of hardware that only has drivers that work with the 2.6.28 kernel. Company XYZ is a software development company, so they can just use their internal software developers to backport the driver from the 2.6.28 kernel to 2.6.17. They are already paying the developers a salary, so it won't cost them any more cash, maybe just a bit of productivity on other projects. This amounts to a huge savings over what Company ABC had to spend to fix a similar issue.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#119

Post by krschultz »

thm wrote: post #100
krschultz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue screen of death at an inoppertune moment - then what? If the equivalent happens in Linux you put in a live CD and get that all important presentation off of it and go on your way. Not to mention that I can install Ubuntu freshly in under and hour, windows takes several times that by the time you install 4 drivers and reboot after each one, install a half dozen apps that aren't included by default etc. That was p…

You can put a Linux Live CD in a Windows computer and still get at your data, and I haven't seen Windows crash that often recently. I'm using Mac and sometimes Linux and have seen Mac OS crash more often that Windows. I feel more comfortable in Mac OS, though. I've used Ubuntu a few years back and prefer that over Windows as well.

Agreed, thats what I did, but at the end of the day now I have my unfinished project on a flash drive and no functioning computer to fix it - not all that useful unless you have another Windows machine with Solidworks installed ready to go - and at a few thousand bucks a seat not many people do. I don't think Windows crashes any more frequently than Linux but it is more catastrophic I feel.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#120

Post by nailer »

jodrellblank wrote: post #87
access_denied wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.

I suffer every time I'm faced with Yet Another *nix Package Manager, another mess of /usr /usr/local /opt /var inconsistencies as well as every time I have to remote to a Windows machine and can't use SSH. There is an alternative, but it's not all sunshine and green grass either side.

/var is pretty consistently used for variable files on all Linux distros. Solaris and other proprietary Unix puts all kinds of other shit there.

/opt and /usr/local are generally unpackaged guff.

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