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Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

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21–30 of 178 posts

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#21
post #13

And in practice how many keyboards will this actually apply to?

He's saying that the entire USB system won't be initialized, which means no keyboards that use USB.

Is it even that common to find hardware that will take a non-USB keyboard anymore? I've got some, but it's old.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#22
post #19
post #16

It appears to me that both System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsUSBDevices System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsBootingFromDVDDevice are required for Windows Logo Certification for both Windows 7 and 8: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj1... Doesn't that directly contradict the hypothetical scenario presented in the article? Additionally, there's Windows 8 hardware out there a…

Additionally, as point (18) on the page you linked to states: Mandatory. Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv. Doesn't this mean that (definitely on certified non-ARM systems, and possibly on some ARM systems) you…

As the article (clearly) says, since USB is not set up fast enough to recognize a keyboard before the bootloader has handed control to the OS, there's no way to interrupt boot to do so; Windows will let you reboot to another OS, but only after you click through a license agreement.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#23
post #19
post #16

It appears to me that both System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsUSBDevices System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsBootingFromDVDDevice are required for Windows Logo Certification for both Windows 7 and 8: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj1... Doesn't that directly contradict the hypothetical scenario presented in the article? Additionally, there's Windows 8 hardware out there a…

Additionally, as point (18) on the page you linked to states: Mandatory. Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv. Doesn't this mean that (definitely on certified non-ARM systems, and possibly on some ARM systems) you…

Yes, as long as you can get into the firmware menu in the first place. Which, on some hardware, requires you to agree to the Windows EULA.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#24
post #17
post #16

It appears to me that both System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsUSBDevices System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsBootingFromDVDDevice are required for Windows Logo Certification for both Windows 7 and 8: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj1... Doesn't that directly contradict the hypothetical scenario presented in the article? Additionally, there's Windows 8 hardware out there a…

From System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsUSBDevices: The USB controller and USB devices must be fully enumerated when: * Anything other than the Windows Boot Manager is at the top of the system boot order. * A boot next variable has been set to boot to something other than the Windows Boot Manager. * On a system where the Windows Boot Manager is at the top of the list, an error case has been hit, such that t…

I believe you, but can you please name and shame? I'd hate to accidentally purchase hardware which by design makes entering firmware setup impossible[1]. With online ordering this isn't always something you can check in advance.

[1] I'm assuming that if a working OS install is required to access it, should anything go wrong you're screwed.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#25
post #2

What's wrong with agreeing to the EULA?

What's wrong with me setting my user-agent to "By allowing me access, you waive all rights and policies regarding my access." and then viewing your website? Hint: it's about as enforceable as a EULA, but just as obnoxious and offensive because it presumes too much and oversteps bounds. Still, in the grand scheme of things, my UA string makes more sense, as putting something online is practically tantamount to putting…

This EULA is unlikely to be unenforceable, as you have the option of returning the product to the manufacturer if you don't want to agree to it.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#28
post #24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From System.Fundamentals.Firmware.FirmwareSupportsUSBDevices: The USB controller and USB devices must be fully enumerated when: * Anything other than the Windows Boot Manager is at the top of the system boot order. * A boot next variable has been set to boot to something other than the Windows Boot Manager. * On a system where the Windows Boot Manager is at the top of the list, an error case has been hit, such that t…

I believe you, but can you please name and shame? I'd hate to accidentally purchase hardware which by design makes entering firmware setup impossible[1]. With online ordering this isn't always something you can check in advance. [1] I'm assuming that if a working OS install is required to access it, should anything go wrong you're screwed.

The Microsoft spec says that any fallback to the Windows rescue environment should trigger full USB enumeration. The Samsung Series 5 I tested had this behaviour, but given I had to return it after managing to kill the firmware I can't give you the exact model number…

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#29
post #26
post #3

What are the benefits of Secure Boot?

It prevents you from using Windows Loader to pirate Windows. (That's a benefit... to Microsoft.)

Not really, since you can just disable Secure Boot and run a hacked copy of Windows Loader, or enrol the hash of said hacked Windows Loader and boot with Secure Boot enabled.

Re: Secure Boot isn't the only problem facing Linux on Windows 8 hardware

#30
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying that the entire USB system won't be initialized, which means no keyboards that use USB.

Is it even that common to find hardware that will take a non-USB keyboard anymore? I've got some, but it's old .

Many desktop machines still do, and most of the modern motherboards in full or mid-tower size still have a PS/2 port or two, for laptops PS/2 support is almost non-existent.
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