111–120 of 202 posts
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I've hounded my kids on "the expected answer" many times. Recently my son was told to write an essay on gun control. I shudder to think what might've happened had he not given the expected conclusion on that one.
If you have that little faith in the school why are you still sending your son there?
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I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
I would try making a FOIA request for the survey—on the school district's website, there's a link for requests: http://www.bps101.net/node/936
Just wanted to point out that the hearing taking place tonight will probably be recorded by BATV (http://batv.us/) and available to stream later in the week. Once the recording is posted, I will update with a direct link.
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> Stupid, yes. But I think it is likely that the school has a real legal barrier to sharing the survey. It could be. It could also be that the people who dreamed up this survey saw that legal barrier as a convenience. You can administer an unfair and potentially useless, invasive, survey, to your students, AND you have a "reason" not to tell the media, too! Had I been a student at this school, I would have put my sur…
> The idea that a publically funded school is passing out surveys to students, and we cannot read them, makes me rage. I I bet all that was done was done under the public guise of "protecting the children" (then again what isn't these days...). Privately all that was done was to protect the behinds of the administrator in case some kid does something "crazy" and the school is sued or criticized. They want to have som…
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That's silly. If the 5th amendment isn't needed here then it is simply overkill. You still have the right to not incriminate oneself. They only way you are correct is if they offered a waiver of immunity for any confessed crimes. This is how they can compel you to speak in front of grand juries. For certain crimes, school officials are required to report them to the police.
> You still have the right to not incriminate oneself. No, you have the right not to testify information that would incriminate you in a proceeding. It's a narrower right than you're making it out to be.
But it is a useful protection when you don't know if you are required to testify -- knowing that you have the 5th means you no longer need to know if you are being compelled or not.
The teacher should be in hot water for teaching the 5th amendment incorrectly. From the text of the amendment: "No person shall be... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." The 5th amendment gives people the right to refuse to testify, as a witness , in a way that might incriminate oneself. Relatedly, it excludes self-incriminating statements in certain circumstances from evidence in crimi…
Use of the privilege is not based on the type of proceeding (ie, it applies to more than just criminal cases), but upon the nature of the statement or admission and the exposure that would invite. Precedent has shown self-incrimination is enforceable in non-disciplinary public school "proceedings". If the students were "coerced" or "compelled" to take a survey that may self-incriminate them, then it could probably be…
This is actually a gray area. My understanding is that this isn't true until the school administrators call the police in. Before that, they are not agents of the police and they don't have to mirandize you. It's also cloudy because the administrators are seen as in loco parentis (in place of the parents). Here is the wikipedia article that details the changing case law around what public school administrators can do w/r/t the bill of rights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis#Primary_and_se...
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I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
It's copyrighted information. How much could be released under "fair use" is questionable. Schools abuse copyright in some ways, and probably compensate by being rigorous in others. Further, if it comes from a company that also offers more conventional achievement kinds of tests, it may come with bloodthirsty NDAs, as a matter of habit for such companies.
Copyright does not stop you from giving a copy to someone, it only stops you from making more copies.
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You don't actually have the right to provide false answers in many situations and doing so could actually be a crime.
I heard somewhere that lying to police is punishable by something like three years in jail in the US. Unless you killed someone or are a repeat offender, lying may well get you a harsher sentence than your original crime. And of course, it's very easy to lie accidentally: You may honestly be confused, mis-remember, make a mistake, or tell them a true fact that doesn't fit with incorrect information they obtained from…
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> You still have the right to not incriminate oneself. No, you have the right not to testify information that would incriminate you in a proceeding. It's a narrower right than you're making it out to be.
So you are required to tell your school officials everything you've ever done wrong? The 5th amendment offers protection in places where you are otherwise legally required to testify, but it's obvious you don't need that additional protection in places where you aren't legally compelled to testify. But it is a useful protection when you don't know if you are required to testify -- knowing that you have the 5th means…
That's neither here nor there. I'm just saying I doubt it's the case that the 5th amendment prevents the school administration from making a student fill out that survey in the absence of any police involvement or review of the results.