There is no way this survey could have worked anyway. How do they expect that kids - who know their school and parents are against them drinking or using drugs - answer questions truthfully on a non-anonymous survey? The only people I can imagine who would not lie on this survey are kids who care more about the truth than possible consequences to them and kids with an IQ of a potato. And I think the former ones are not the trouble kids the school is looking for.
Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
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Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#82The teacher should be in hot water for teaching the 5th amendment incorrectly. From the text of the amendment: "No person shall be... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." The 5th amendment gives people the right to refuse to testify, as a witness , in a way that might incriminate oneself. Relatedly, it excludes self-incriminating statements in certain circumstances from evidence in crimi…
The right not to incriminate yourself is a basic civil right. The Fifth Amendment is a codification of the right, which was given to you, as our Founding Fathers saw it, by the laws of nature. The Amendment may refer only to some circumstances, but the right was prior to it.
So, the teacher was correct to treat the students about their basic, God-given rights.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#83Does this kind of survey make any sense? Why should somebody answer honestly if the survey is not anonymous and you don't want to admit something? If you want to admit something, such an survey may at best catalyze it. Therefore I would expect that the result of such an survey just does not reflect reality. You could cross check answers of a well designed survey to get an indication if the answers are honest or not b…
Exactly. So many comments here assume that students wouldn't lie on this survey, which I think is an ridiculous assumption. From my experience, students are afraid to be overly honest on anonymous feedback surveys just because of the possibility teacher will recognize the handwriting. There's no way they would fill in truthfully a non-anonymous survey that could get them in a world of trouble.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#84Since when is advising people of their rights a punishable offense? Talk about double standards America.
"Here's your rights...don't even think about using them or we will punish you!"
And the most revolting of all the school board actually think this is ok? I wouldn't want these people training my dog let alone teaching my children.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Never blame on malice what can be blamed on incompetence. In this case my capacity for outrage is exhausted. I've been through too many permutations of this particular type of outrage that this is in line with my expectations. And yes, if the survey is as described, the teacher should be commended. Not punished. But that's out of my hands, though if someone gives me someone to email, I will do so.
Malice and incompetence are equally dangerous and harmful.
*are equally dangerous and have the potential to be as harmful as one another.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cynical-me thinks this is ideal education - proper preparation for "the real world": Answer every question not with "the truth", but instead work out what "the expected answer" is and give them that...
I've hounded my kids on "the expected answer" many times. Recently my son was told to write an essay on gun control. I shudder to think what might've happened had he not given the expected conclusion on that one.
If you have that little faith in the school why are you still sending your son there?
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#87Since when is advising people of their rights a punishable offense? Talk about double standards America. "Here's your rights...don't even think about using them or we will punish you!" And the most revolting of all the school board actually think this is ok? I wouldn't want these people training my dog let alone teaching my children.
see (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification). Knowledge of its existence makes you unsuitable for jury service (in some jurisdictions).
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#88Social research 101: any non-anonymous questionnaire asking sensitive questions is totally useless. Social studies freshman would get F for that. Regardless of 5th amendment issues... how could anyone pay for that is beyond me - that school is wasting taxpayers money.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#89The school is also trying to teach students a valuable civics lesson: your rights are minimal and the principle function of the state is the furtherance of the careers of the bureaucrats who compose the state. Anything that inconveniences them will be met with all the power they can muster.
Abuse of treason convictions had occurred so much in England that the framers specifically defined it in the constitution (apparently the only crime to get such a treatment). "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." I don't necessarily think they were right on everything, but they were right on this. You really d…
You meant to reply to sk5t's comment, did you not? Your explanation seems to make much more sense as a reply to that than to your parent.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
It's copyrighted information. How much could be released under "fair use" is questionable. Schools abuse copyright in some ways, and probably compensate by being rigorous in others. Further, if it comes from a company that also offers more conventional achievement kinds of tests, it may come with bloodthirsty NDAs, as a matter of habit for such companies.
> It's copyrighted information.
It's a public school. So copyrights are now more important than parents rights? What a lame excuse.
Maybe that's also why our - so called - Representatives in Congress can't see the Acts they are voting into the Law? Because it's copyrighted by Lobbyists?
What a joke of a country.