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Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

dailyherald.com

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Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#51

Post by downandout »

The teacher was absolutely correct to warn these kids, and it's absurd that the district would to try to punish him over it. No good things can come from answering questions like this on a personally identifiable survey. The school even stated that the intent was to identify and help at-risk students - meaning the information was going to be reviewed, discussed by and disclosed to staff, put in the students' files, and acted upon. There is absolutely nothing that would stop this survey from making it to college admissions offices, law enforcement, parents, etc.

The fact that the district wouldn't have instructed all teachers to notify students of the potential ramifications of answering such questions is a big problem. If any of the data later has a negative impact on someone's child, the district may have some legal liability. This teacher should actually be rewarded potentially shielding the district from a lawsuit.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#53

Post by AaronI »

rayiner wrote: post #43

The teacher should be in hot water for teaching the 5th amendment incorrectly. From the text of the amendment: "No person shall be... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..." The 5th amendment gives people the right to refuse to testify, as a witness , in a way that might incriminate oneself. Relatedly, it excludes self-incriminating statements in certain circumstances from evidence in crimi…

Use of the privilege is not based on the type of proceeding (ie, it applies to more than just criminal cases), but upon the nature of the statement or admission and the exposure that would invite. Precedent has shown self-incrimination is enforceable in non-disciplinary public school "proceedings".

If the students were "coerced" or "compelled" to take a survey that may self-incriminate them, then it could probably be shown the privilege did apply.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#54

Post by maxcan »

The school is also trying to teach students a valuable civics lesson: your rights are minimal and the principle function of the state is the furtherance of the careers of the bureaucrats who compose the state. Anything that inconveniences them will be met with all the power they can muster.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#55

Post by cecilpl »

rayiner wrote: post #48
darkarmani wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's silly. If the 5th amendment isn't needed here then it is simply overkill. You still have the right to not incriminate oneself. They only way you are correct is if they offered a waiver of immunity for any confessed crimes. This is how they can compel you to speak in front of grand juries. For certain crimes, school officials are required to report them to the police.

> You still have the right to not incriminate oneself. No, you have the right not to testify information that would incriminate you in a proceeding. It's a narrower right than you're making it out to be.

You also have the right not to tell the principal of your high school about all the drugs you're doing.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#56

Post by bx_ »

Off-topic, but how does it work that when I load that site I get an advertisement for The Lorax (http://i.imgur.com/y6eke4T.jpg), a character with whom John Dryden happens to share several key features? I understand showing ads by keyword (the alcohol ad as alcohol is mentioned in the article several times...) but facial similarity based advertising?! I'm speechless.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#57

Post by bx_ »

nsxwolf wrote: post #6
TallGuyShort wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it's well-covered by other sources, I would kindly ask you to blog your observations and share them with us :)

I certainly will.

Agreed -- would love to know how this goes!

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#58

Post by readme »

btilly wrote: post #41
readme wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stupid, yes. But I think it is likely that the school has a real legal barrier to sharing the survey. It could be. It could also be that the people who dreamed up this survey saw that legal barrier as a convenience. You can administer an unfair and potentially useless, invasive, survey, to your students, AND you have a "reason" not to tell the media, too! Had I been a student at this school, I would have put my sur…

Never blame on malice what can be blamed on incompetence. In this case my capacity for outrage is exhausted. I've been through too many permutations of this particular type of outrage that this is in line with my expectations. And yes, if the survey is as described, the teacher should be commended. Not punished. But that's out of my hands, though if someone gives me someone to email, I will do so.

Malice and incompetence are equally dangerous and harmful.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#59

Post by Maxious »

cdash wrote: post #37
Maxious wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which was the whole point the teacher was making - you have a right to not incriminate yourself (by giving a false answer or not answering), even when asked by authority figures (judges, police, teachers) to do so. A lot of people feel that they must fill in every value of every form "or else". While really, if you value your privacy you should ask if every value is really required.

You don't actually have the right to provide false answers in many situations and doing so could actually be a crime.

I can definately think of immigration cards/interviews as a case where that is true.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#60

Post by GhotiFish »

coldcode wrote: post #22

Why are questions asked of students copyrighted so as to not allow any visibility to parents? If I had a child required to answer potentially incriminating questions at school I would want public scrutiny, otherwise this becomes a kind of secret inquisition.

If my daughter answered that she was using drugs on a survey, with her name on it, which was then publicly released, it could have serious ramifications. That information could do serious harm to her future prospects if anyone grabbed the data and started making hiring decisions. Or grabbed the data and started blackmailing. If I had a daughter, anyway.

Frankly, the schools shouldn't have that information, it's dangerous. While it can save lives, it can end them just as easily.

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