I wonder if, legally, kids have identical Constitutional rights. They certainly don't have the 4th (not in the sense that an adult has it), for example, and I wonder if Juvenile courts have to give the 6th.
Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
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Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#22Why are questions asked of students copyrighted so as to not allow any visibility to parents? If I had a child required to answer potentially incriminating questions at school I would want public scrutiny, otherwise this becomes a kind of secret inquisition.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#23I wonder if, legally, kids have identical Constitutional rights. They certainly don't have the 4th (not in the sense that an adult has it), for example, and I wonder if Juvenile courts have to give the 6th.
The first amendment of the US constitution is curtailed in schools in specific instances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_amendment_to_the_united_s...
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cynical-me thinks this is ideal education - proper preparation for "the real world": Answer every question not with "the truth", but instead work out what "the expected answer" is and give them that...
I've hounded my kids on "the expected answer" many times. Recently my son was told to write an essay on gun control. I shudder to think what might've happened had he not given the expected conclusion on that one.
What is the expected opinion on that. I'm not from the US.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#25Why are questions asked of students copyrighted so as to not allow any visibility to parents? If I had a child required to answer potentially incriminating questions at school I would want public scrutiny, otherwise this becomes a kind of secret inquisition.
The purported reason is because the survey was designed by a private company who claims the survey to be their intellectual property. Similarly, if a school screened a controversial film, a parent could not ask the school for a copy of said film, because the school doesn't own the intellectual rights to it.
This is a microcosm of what happens when public institutions, whose records and dealings are considered to be part of the public record, uses private contractors. Other public instituions have used this to deny access to what is usually a citizen's right to know: e.g. public worker salaries being maintained by a private payroll company.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.
My guess is that the survey was bought from a private company on a contract that says it is that company's property and not to be shared. Therefore if the school released the form, they could be sued by said private company both for violating copyright and contract. (And the company would want that because they want to resell the survey to other schools.) Stupid, yes. But I think it is likely that the school has a re…
> Stupid, yes. But I think it is likely that the school has a real legal barrier to sharing the survey.
It could be. It could also be that the people who dreamed up this survey saw that legal barrier as a convenience. You can administer an unfair and potentially useless, invasive, survey, to your students, AND you have a "reason" not to tell the media, too! Had I been a student at this school, I would have put my survey directly in the trash.
The idea that a publically funded school is passing out surveys to students, and we cannot read them, makes me rage. If this doesn't anger you, then something is wrong. The reason is irrelevant, they should have thought about that before buying the survey.
When tyranny comes it is not going to introduce itself. No one is going to hand you a pamphlet, entitled: "Your rights, and lack thereof" and roll out the details of how they will all be taken away. It will do so by stealth. It will do so by employing lame excuses. It will come as a trojan horse. Increased security, no more terrorist attacks! This is all secret so we can keep the kids off drugs!
The road to hell was paved with good intentions.
This teacher is a hero.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sure about that? That'd be downright idiotic. My school did something similar, but the surveys were anonymous and simply used for aggregate statistics - which sounds infinitely more effective than what this school is doing, anyway.
I'm not positive but very confident. These surveys are not anonymous, says the article. School administrators are required to adhere to the zero tolerance policy to the letter.
"The letter" being that if a student admits partaking in drug or alcohol use, ever in their lives, they are immediately expelled? Do you have a source for this?
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've hounded my kids on "the expected answer" many times. Recently my son was told to write an essay on gun control. I shudder to think what might've happened had he not given the expected conclusion on that one.
What is the expected opinion on that. I'm not from the US.
For a school the expected opinion is that less guns is better.
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#29Alumni here.
Wow, this has been circulating among my Facebook friends and I saw the article when it came out. Did not expect to see it on the front page of HN.
I'll try to add a little more information. The article mentions it briefly, but suicide has become a big issue in Batavia[0]. I know of at least the first 2 suicides - two friends (or possibly boyfriend/girlfriend, can't say for sure), roughly 6 months apart. These events were completely unprecedented and were a shock to the quiet, safe, middle-class town.
Major props to Dryden for standing up to the this. Although I never had him for a teacher when I was in school, many of my friends were influenced by him.
I'll ask some friends if they remember any of the survey questions, and post them here if I can.
Also, I look forward to nsxwolf's (another Batavian!) notes from the city council meeting.
[0]: Read a little more here: http://www.kcchronicle.com/mobile/article.xml/articles/2013/...
Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not positive but very confident. These surveys are not anonymous, says the article. School administrators are required to adhere to the zero tolerance policy to the letter.
"The letter" being that if a student admits partaking in drug or alcohol use, ever in their lives, they are immediately expelled? Do you have a source for this?
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